Fuck Visual Gayshit, hello C#

[freedompeace]

I just want to learn C# cause its .NET and all people say its almost the same as JAVA or pHP...Thats why i want to learn that SHIIT!

Then, consequently, PHP must be similar to Java and C#, so go learn that ? Same goes for Java.

note.. many languages out there inherit a C-style syntax..

[Jason]

If you really want to learn a Language that runs on VM's, Learn Zava. Java is cute, Even if it's a ressource Whore, At least it can be ported to anything that can run the Java VM/Engine, Doing GUI's is easy, Etc. So here you have all the said VB "Advantages" without it being a retarded language developed my Micrapsoft for copypastas :3.

I see more C++ copypastas around here than VB copypastas

Bytecode <3. They need to improve Java's resource whoring, then it would be really good.

Learning C# is a piece of cake if you already know VB.NET. I'm not saying it's a big language shift, more that I'm ditching VB's annoying ass syntax, for a version of VB with nicer syntax. C-style syntax is pretty much everywhere....except VB, damned annoying.

[Melodia]

I see more C++ copypastas around here than VB copypastas

Bytecode <3. They need to improve Java's resource whoring, then it would be really good.

Learning C# is a piece of cake if you already know VB.NET. I'm not saying it's a big language shift, more that I'm ditching VB's annoying ass syntax, for a version of VB with nicer syntax. C-style syntax is pretty much everywhere....except VB, damned annoying.

Mpgh is absolutely not an good example/reference for Anything.

Yah, It's a whore, I don't code muchies Java nor really like it but I said that as an example and like it waaaay much more than VBCrap :3.

Same wiff c-Like D: Syntaxing. Still VB, Get in advance for your Uni courses, Learn C :3.

[freedompeace]

I see more C++ copypastas around here than VB copypastas

Bytecode <3. They need to improve Java's resource whoring, then it would be really good.

Learning C# is a piece of cake if you already know VB.NET. I'm not saying it's a big language shift, more that I'm ditching VB's annoying ass syntax, for a version of VB with nicer syntax. C-style syntax is pretty much everywhere....except VB, damned annoying.

Resource whoring? Oh, you mean this?

I can't understand why Java won't let me inherit multiple classes... and my operators.. especially when dealing with things that need to be stored in one type, but converted to another (eg, registry keys), this becomes annoying :/

[Jason]

Mpgh is absolutely not an good example/reference for Anything.

Yah, It's a whore, I don't code muchies Java nor really like it but I said that as an example and like it waaaay much more than VBCrap :3.

Same wiff c-Like D: Syntaxing. Still VB, Get in advance for your Uni courses, Learn C :3.

No thanks . I looked at Java like a week before Uni started to get in ahead....now I've been bored shitless in my Java lectures for the last 8 weeks. So, if I don't look at C at all before semester two, I might actually learn something for a change!

[Hassan]

Mpgh is absolutely not an good example/reference for Anything.

Yah, It's a whore, I don't code muchies Java nor really like it but I said that as an example and like it waaaay much more than VBCrap :3.

Same wiff c-Like D: Syntaxing. Still VB, Get in advance for your Uni courses, Learn C :3.

I wanna learn C. Any good book ? ;]

[freedompeace]

I wanna learn C. Any good book ? ;]

Why books for? C programming.com - Your Resource for C and C++ Programming

[Hassan]

Why books for? C programming.com - Your Resource for C and C++ Programming

Fuck. That's a good site. Ima start now

[Melodia]

Resource whoring? Oh, you mean this?

I can't understand why Java won't let me inherit multiple classes... and my operators.. especially when dealing with things that need to be stored in one type, but converted to another (eg, registry keys), this becomes annoying :/

LOL ! Like.

Err, You forgot to edit the "System Memory" tab at the bottom of the page D:.

1GB Ram Mac VM ?

[Fovea]

On Portability
The type of programming done in these types of communities is very platform dependent. Portability is irrelevant.

On Performance
The performance hit (if it even exists) because of the nature of interpreted languages is negligible on modern hardware. Just-in-time compilation is one of C#'s most powerful asset. JIT compilation is powerful because of certain optimization methods that are not possible during static compilation. Detection of processor type can be used to generate faster code because of architectural differences, e.g., different clock cycles for certain instructions, or extended instruction sets. Code coverage analysis can be used by the interpreter to provide further optimization, e.g., rearrangement of code based on branch coverage (branch prediction) that is frequently executed so that instruction cache misses are avoided (expensive) and caching/prefetching. The ability to inline certain functions is extended as well.

The truth is "learning C++" is easy if one thinks just about syntax; however, designing with C++ is hard. It is generally accepted in the programming community that memory management is hard, and even harder to implement efficiently. The general consensus is the same with regards to multithreading. In fact, most of the time C# applications are more efficent, simply because of poor design. Garbage collection is not an evil. Abstraction is a blessing, not a curse. Unless you are truly coding for performance a compiler WILL generate better code than a human being. Optimization is srs bsns.

Other advantages include type safety, a more object oriented approach, security, and a better library (.NET; the scope extends far beyond standard functions in C++).

Performance arguments against interpreted languages/.NET are almost always erroneus. Too many people talk these days without knowing the underlying mechanisms that interpreters perform.

Another important factor to take into account is discussed at Why not fast - C.

Conclusion
C# is an amazing language and it definitely has its place in the realm of programming. The comparison should not have been made in the first place. Each tool has its own use.


P.S. C++ has a managed variant. See C++/CLI. Want true performance (constant time)? Try TMP.

[freedompeace]

I use C++ w/ CLR, it's quite nice not having to write so much code for things like networking and cryptography :)

Great post, I'm not gonna nitpick, but, ultimately, comparisons will be made, quite righteously too.

LOL ! Like.

Err, You forgot to edit the "System Memory" tab at the bottom of the page D:.

1GB Ram Mac VM ?

Until Apple realises that not everyone wants a Mac. iPhone != Mac :P

[Alen]

Until Apple realises that not everyone wants a Mac. iPhone != Mac :P

Intel, standard chipsets, realtek cards and nvidia. Long live hackintosh. And I think everyone knows how much I hate VB, C# and .NET so I'll just let Melodia rape you guys

[Jason]

Intel, standard chipsets, realtek cards and nvidia. Long live hackintosh. And I think everyone knows how much I hate VB, C# and .NET so I'll just let Melodia rape you guys

It's not rape if you're willing.

It's also not rape if you say surprise.

[Melodia]

On Portability
The type of programming done in these types of communities is very platform dependent. Portability is irrelevant. [...]

+1 Internets for You.

You're basically giving M$' explanation which certainly does make sense (SarcMark), And that I will translate to my understanding below ;

" It's okay to code incompetently nowdays, With modern processors you don't see the difference, It all goes fast in the end, You don't know how to manage memory fast and efficiently, Come to the dark side, Code in .Net, It will (approximately) do management for you (: It's a managed language ! Wonderful ! "

Of course the comparison should have been made ; .Net is an interpreted language, And it sucks., Having modern processors and all that crap is not a reason to learn nor code it ; In the end it just makes you more dependent to it as when you start with it you don't learn the basics, And you're used to it doing the crap for you.
I'm not saying I bitch all interpreted languages, I'll give Python again as a wonderful example. I'm just saying .Net and the company that created it are Retards. Thanks.

Yah I'm repeating myself, This is the consequences of being a Drunk I guess, Meanie Hangovers. But I still get to explain my point (: , Meanie .Net post can't remain un-attacked (:

Kidding.
Or Not.

[Fovea]

Yes, why don't we all start programming entirely in assembly again, after all, abtractions in C++ make your code slow. Let's take it even further and stop using our IDEs, after all people should learn how to manually refactor code instead of having the IDE do it for them. Finally, why don't we just stop using other people's libraries. Screw the C standard library, and screw STL. People need to learn how to implement these functions on their own. Learn the basics guys.

I can guarantee you, that no one here on this forum can properly implement a memory manager or multithreading for a large project. In addition, for projects like these, it is simply not worth the opportunity cost to implement these features when there are existing viable options. See Performance Quiz #6 -- Chinese/English Dictionary reader - Rico Mariani's Performance Tidbits - Site Home - MSDN Blogs.

Here is an excerpt:

So am I ashamed by my crushing defeat? Hardly. The managed code got a very good result for hardly any effort. To defeat the managed Raymond had to:

Write his own file I/O stuff
Write his own string class
Write his own allocator
Write his own international mapping
Of course he used available lower level libraries to do this, but that's still a lot of work. Can you call what's left an STL program? I don't think so, I think he kept the std::vector class which ultimately was never a problem and he kept the find function. Pretty much everything else is gone.

So, yup, you can definately beat the CLR. Raymond can make his program go even faster I think.

Interestingly, the time to parse the file as reported by both programs internal timers is about the same -- 30ms for each. The difference is in the overhead.

C# is not a pure interpreted language. Interpretation usually occurs once, unlike true interpreted languages where bytecode is read then executed.

Face the facts, C# is an industry standard. The comparison should never have been made, its like trying to compare apples and oranges. You don't use a screwdriver to place a nail. You wouldn't use C++ to write a boot strap loader. Every tool has its own use. If you had any understanding of industry, you would realize the importance of abstractions. The fabled Linus Toorvalds, progenitor of Linux, denounces C++ similar to the way others denounce C#. Like Linus Toorvalds, they are backwards, and stuck in the past. But of course, people will always be inherently stubborn.

P.S. Python has a JIT implementation as well. See Psyco - Home Page.

P.P.S. https://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u6...=on&python3=on Python is much slower than C# by a factor of 15. Performance issue is now null and void. Take into account the study by Rico M. A 3x performance factor is negligible and accountable for the Rico M. effect. A 15x performance factor is not.