Guys..Islam is peaceful.

[unicorn69]

Newspapers: Belgian mosque attacked, imam dies - Yahoo! News

Afghan youth recounts US soldier's shooting spree - Yahoo! News

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Newspapers: Belgian mosque attacked, imam dies - Yahoo! News

Afghan youth recounts US soldier's shooting spree - Yahoo! News

The thing is you could post 100 similar stories and it still wouldn't even come close to amounting to the violence brought about by radical Islamist

See they can blame America all they like for why they are violent. Muslims like to do that all of the time.
I usually answer them with stories like this:
"Emo" and gay kids targeted, killed in Iraq - CBS News

As you can see, they still kill their own people. Stoning innocent kids to death for having different haircuts.
Kidnapping them, binding their hands and feet, and smashing their skulls in with cinder blocks.
Sooner or later these crimes are going to come back to these radical fundie pricks.
Kids in the Middle East are educating themselves more, they don't want to be stuck in the stone age.
These poor kids are being targeted for "moral" issues. Well what the fuck is so moral about killing someone because they want to dress a certain way,
or they want to have a different haircut?

[EgyptianKing]

Yes, please do not consider all Muslims to be terrorists, because it is said that the Shiites are considered the terrorists, and there are 9% Shiites. So 91% are Sunni, meaning that 91% are not terrorists. Please do your research before saying "Dem terrorists blowin up owa country, dam right".

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Yes, please do not consider all Muslims to be terrorists, because it is said that the Shiites are considered the terrorists, and there are 9% Shiites. So 91% are Sunni, meaning that 91% are not terrorists. Please do your research before saying "Dem terrorists blowin up owa country, dam right".

Yeah,yeah and the Shiite Muslims will say that the Sunni are terrorists. You guys can go back and fourth about that.
The truth of the matter is that there are terrorists in both Sunni and Shiite sects. That I know for an absolute fact.
Might want to go somewhere else with your bullshit and maybe get your information straight before telling someone to research.

[EgyptianKing]

Oh I forgot to mention. What is being a Muslim mean?
Devoting your life to a peaceful life, following the 5 pillars of Islam, right?
If these terrorists do the opposite of this, would they be considered to be Muslims?
No, and you might be right on the part where terrorists can both be in each group, Sunni and Shiites, but only about 9% of Muslims are considered terrorists.
"What is the number of Islamic terrorists? 1 percent? I think it's closer to 10%"(Glenn Beck).

[Hannibal]

You're considered Muslim if you follow the teachings of the Quran, and if you acknowledge Mohammed as your messiah. THAT is what makes somebody Muslim. You seem to be grouping the word Muslim and terrorist loosely. Do you know what a terrorist is? A terrorist is somebody who spreads and causes terror. A common example of this is the IRA. But of course they haven't been in the public eye for awhile. If somebody knows terrorists and doesn't do anything or doesn't care then they're help spreading fear. By not acting you then become a terrorist yourself. You need to read up more before you try to put a whole spiel.

[EgyptianKing]

Thank you Saboteur. Some people do not understand this.

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

You're considered Muslim if you follow the teachings of the Quran, and if you acknowledge Mohammed as your messiah. THAT is what makes somebody Muslim. You seem to be grouping the word Muslim and terrorist loosely. Do you know what a terrorist is? A terrorist is somebody who spreads and causes terror. A common example of this is the IRA. But of course they haven't been in the public eye for awhile. If somebody knows terrorists and doesn't do anything or doesn't care then they're help spreading fear. By not acting you then become a terrorist yourself. You need to read up more before you try to put a whole spiel.

This thread is specifically about Islamic terrorists..
I never said there weren't any other terrorist groups.
Violence in the Quran can be interpreted just as easily as peace, therefore my argument is that it is fundamentally flawed.
Just like the majority of Abrahamic ideologies.
It's not up to you and I to tell someone what their beliefs are just because we might feel they aren't practicing them correctly.
If a terrorist walks into a crowded Plaza, yells "GOD IS GREAT" in Arabic before detonating himself, I'm pretty sure he's a Muslim.
That's the ideology he decided to follow, and he believes killing himself and his enemies in the name of God is just.
They don't exactly hold the laws of man in very high regard the way westerners do apparently,
They follow a code of ethics that's only understood by some of their own followers.
Thing is I can fish out all kinds of passages from the Quran that are violent,
So I can't sit here and say: "Hey you're following your book wrong"
Because to be completely honest, even an educated person would say that certain verses can go in either direction.
Also, you really don't know what my level of education is on this subject so please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Thanks.

[Empire]

:/ this will never end ethereal.

Side A will make the point in that Islam promotes violence and disorder.

Side B will ignorantly try to make the point that "they are not muslims".
-----------------------------------
-.- it won't end as long as they remain kids.

[EgyptianKing]

First of all, Muslims believe that before they attack anyone, they must be attacked. So no "Muslim" will go to a crowd and do such a thing.
Second of all, if you are so educated, go find me some passages in the Quran that are violent.

Then we will continue this debate.

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

:/ this will never end ethereal.

Side A will make the point in that Islam promotes violence and disorder.

Side B will ignorantly try to make the point that "they are not muslims".
-----------------------------------
-.- it won't end as long as they remain kids.

I agree.. ignorance is bliss.

First of all, Muslims believe that before they attack anyone, they must be attacked. So no "Muslim" will go to a crowd and do such a thing.
Second of all, if you are so educated, go find me some passages in the Quran that are violent.

Then we will continue this debate.

They read the Quran, they "martyr" themselves for Allah usually as an offensive and not a defensive attack.
What would you have me call them? Christians? They are every bit as Muslim as one that has taken a peaceful approach to their religion. So your point is invalid and you're providing a pretty weak argument.

By the way, Muhammed spent the last 10-15 years of his life OFFENSIVELY raiding caravans and sacking villages.
So don't sit here and tell me that the Quran only promotes self defense acceptable when pertaining to violence.

(69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

(8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."


(5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."

(22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."


( 3:169)
Set 11, Count 32 ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];


(4:100-104)
Set 19, Count 48-52 ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...


I can quote hundreds more but I don't feel like sitting here all day wasting my time.

[EgyptianKing]

Okay, I see you are educated, but if you could have done more research you could see that the Quran prohibits the act of murdering.

"..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does he command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)

“Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33)

So according to the Quran, killing wrongfully is a huge sin. Meaning these terrorists are not to be considered Muslims, because they do not follow the teachings of the Quran.

When I said that Muslims do not believe in starting a fight, only fight if be fought. I will give you evidence on my statement.

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

Oh and here is another for you.

“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)

So tell me, do these verse give free permission to kill anyone anywhere?

[[MPGH]Ethereal]

Okay, I see you are educated, but if you could have done more research you could see that the Quran prohibits the act of murdering.

"..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does he command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)

“Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33)

So according to the Quran, killing wrongfully is a huge sin. Meaning these terrorists are not to be considered Muslims, because they do not follow the teachings of the Quran.

When I said that Muslims do not believe in starting a fight, only fight if be fought. I will give you evidence on my statement.

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

Oh and here is another for you.

“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)

So tell me, do these verse give free permission to kill anyone anywhere?

Right so the point you're trying to make is it's only okay to kill infidels. Do you not see how crazy this is?
How utterly intolerant this stuff sounds?

" But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them;" According to that passage, it gives the Muslim justification to kill someone that deserts Islam. Technically speaking a Mujahideen fighter can consider a Muslim that decides not to fight in Jihad a deserter.
In this day an age, what is happening in the Middle East is senseless slaughter.
For what? For a God that has yet to prove to humanity it's existence, yet we are here in the present day,
humans that have the capability to love, to care for one another and to be empathetic,
to make amazing leaps in education and science that has been Beneficial to the human race and the world alike.
Yet we still have disgusting travesties like what is happening in Syria and the "emo" kids being killed in Iraq for having western hair cuts.
I have no issues if people want to practice their beliefs, but when it's ideals are forced onto people and violence seems to perpetually surround it,
How else am I supposed to feel about it?

[EgyptianKing]

Yes, I believe I am wrong and you are right, but those passages I posted were to show you that Muslims do not attack first, but to only wrong doers. And how did we shift from terrorism to the Quran?

How about we end this, I believe you are right in a sense, but I will still believe some of my points are correct.

[[MPGH]Austin]

This thread is specifically about Islamic terrorists..
I never said there weren't any other terrorist groups.
Violence in the Quran can be interpreted just as easily as peace, therefore my argument is that it is fundamentally flawed.
Just like the majority of Abrahamic ideologies.
It's not up to you and I to tell someone what their beliefs are just because we might feel they aren't practicing them correctly.
If a terrorist walks into a crowded Plaza, yells "GOD IS GREAT" in Arabic before detonating himself, I'm pretty sure he's a Muslim.
That's the ideology he decided to follow, and he believes killing himself and his enemies in the name of God is just.
They don't exactly hold the laws of man in very high regard the way westerners do apparently,
They follow a code of ethics that's only understood by some of their own followers.
Thing is I can fish out all kinds of passages from the Quran that are violent,
So I can't sit here and say: "Hey you're following your book wrong"
Because to be completely honest, even an educated person would say that certain verses can go in either direction.
Also, you really don't know what my level of education is on this subject so please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Thanks.

err... what? I wasn't against you on anything, I was just commenting.