You guys realize that ISIS is not Muslims right ?

[Niku ・(￣∀￣)・]

just to clear out . ISIS is actually this =https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam
https://www.religionfacts.com/islam/sects/shia.htm

you may do research on it.the way they pray and fasting are different . real Islam never teach brutality nor forcing someone to convert Islam . If they do apply based on al-Quran why do they have to kill innocent people .

[Empire]

which means I'm Muslim but I don't really beleive in Islam .

You are not a muslim then.

Quraan didn't say kill a Christian because he is Muslim or kill a Muslim because he follows a certain group (She'a etc..) and that's what ISIS do .

You seem to not understand that's using a "no true scotsman" fallacy.

real Islam never teach brutality nor forcing someone to convert Islam .

Uhmmmm, that's kind of what Muhammad and the Quran do. That's what Islam has been effectively doing for centuries as well.

O_O

[Janitor]

You are not a muslim then.




You seem to not understand that's using a "no true scotsman" fallacy.




Uhmmmm, that's kind of what Muhammad and the Quran do. That's what Islam has been effectively doing for centuries as well.

O_O

Watched the video,didn't quite understand it tbh (something about proving my point )

What Niki said is true Muhammad didn't torture people or kill them to convert into Islam.

[Empire]

Watched the video,didn't quite understand it tbh (something about proving my point )

What Niki said is true Muhammad didn't torture people or kill them to convert into Islam.

Basically stating "real muslims don't do X" is a fallacy.

Niki's right. Except muhammed did wage a war to further his goals, instructed others to do the same(among other things like taxes), and many of his followers did what he instructed and started many wars after that.


Also, the goal of ISIS is not to "convert" people, so that's kind of irrelevant.

[Janitor]

Basically stating "real muslims don't do X" is a fallacy.

Niki's right. Except muhammed did wage a war to further his goals, instructed others to do the same(among other things like taxes), and many of his followers did what he instructed and started many wars after that.


Also, the goal of ISIS is not to "convert" people, so that's kind of irrelevant.

Well , thanks for providing me with more knowledge .
good debate.

[Niku ・(￣∀￣)・]

Basically stating "real muslims don't do X" is a fallacy.

Niki's right. Except muhammed did wage a war to further his goals, instructed others to do the same(among other things like taxes), and many of his followers did what he instructed and started many wars after that.


Also, the goal of ISIS is not to "convert" people, so that's kind of irrelevant.

its true but from what i've learned Prophet Muhammad did start a war because the Quraysh Tribe(Non-muslim) were slaughtering and threatening Muslim that in Mecca because Abu Sufyan(leader of the Quraysh Tribe) hate Muslims and how they quickly spread and also Allah(God) forbid Prophet Muhammad to start a war unless there is a country that tries to threatened Islam country but if they in war Prophet Muhammad told His armies that don't destroy property of enemies country and forgive enemies that surrender in war . also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Mecca .


and yeah the goal of ISIS isn't to converting people what their goal is they wanted to kill all non muslim which is wrong .

[Empire]

its true but from what i've learned Prophet Muhammad did start a war because the Quraysh Tribe(Non-muslim) were slaughtering and threatening Muslim that in Mecca because Abu Sufyan(leader of the Quraysh Tribe) hate Muslims and how they quickly spread and also Allah(God) forbid Prophet Muhammad to start a war unless there is a country that tries to threatened Islam country but if they in war Prophet Muhammad told His armies that don't destroy property of enemies country and forgive enemies that surrender in war . also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Mecca .


and yeah the goal of ISIS isn't to converting people what their goal is they wanted to kill all non muslim which is wrong .

Let me give you a quick rundown.

>Muhammed married a wealthy woman.(he didn't really work much)
>Muhammed's wife was rich.(this is important, because many of the things he did, he could not have without the enormous wealth of his wife)
>Muhammed then proceeded to make up a new religion.(Islam).
>Muhammed preached in the cities. He was welcome, but like every new religion people were wary of him.
>Muhammed gained a handful of followers.
>Muhammed then denounced the other people's gods.(a grave offense, even in Islamic society today).
>Muhammed then was forced out of his city for fear of his life(for offending people to such a degree).
>Muhammed went to Medina.
>Muhammed was welcomed in Medina, for he was rich, and rich guest are always welcome.
>Muhammed, wearing out his welcome, proceeded to organize a raid against the caravans.(he could do this because of his wife's business, which was caravans).
>Muhammed then carried out that raid. Killing the caravan leaders.

Then the Meccan's, owner of the caravans, retaliated. They attacked Medina.
Muhammed won the battle, and the next.
Muhammed actually lost a battle though, by being careless at the end, he fled for his life(barely making it out alive).
Muhammed also killed a man in that battle.

Anyway, the rest is back and forth between mecca and medina. Standard war shit.
Muhammed did raid an unimportant Jewish city, that was not in the conflict.
Muhammed, through a diversionary tactic, took Mecca.

That's the story of his "persecution".

[Aborted]

If a Muslim does something good: Real Muslim.
If a Muslim does something bad: Not a real Muslim.

lmao

[Niku ・(￣∀￣)・]

Let me give you a quick rundown.

>Muhammed married a wealthy woman.(he didn't really work much)
>Muhammed's wife was rich.(this is important, because many of the things he did, he could not have without the enormous wealth of his wife)
>Muhammed then proceeded to make up a new religion.(Islam).
>Muhammed preached in the cities. He was welcome, but like every new religion people were wary of him.
>Muhammed gained a handful of followers.
>Muhammed then denounced the other people's gods.(a grave offense, even in Islamic society today).
>Muhammed then was forced out of his city for fear of his life(for offending people to such a degree).
>Muhammed went to Medina.
>Muhammed was welcomed in Medina, for he was rich, and rich guest are always welcome.
>Muhammed, wearing out his welcome, proceeded to organize a raid against the caravans.(he could do this because of his wife's business, which was caravans).
>Muhammed then carried out that raid. Killing the caravan leaders.

Then the Meccan's, owner of the caravans, retaliated. They attacked Medina.
Muhammed won the battle, and the next.
Muhammed actually lost a battle though, by being careless at the end, he fled for his life(barely making it out alive).
Muhammed also killed a man in that battle.

Anyway, the rest is back and forth between mecca and medina. Standard war shit.
Muhammed did raid an unimportant Jewish city, that was not in the conflict.
Muhammed, through a diversionary tactic, took Mecca.

That's the story of his "persecution".

He wasn't really forced out but rather than he leaving Mecca because of Quraysh people wanted to kill him .and also the Medina's people inviting Muhammad because of the longstanding enmity between the Aus and Khazraj tribes was dampened as many of the two Arab tribes and some local Jews embraced Islam.
Muhammad, linked to the Khazraj through his great-grandmother, was agreed on as civic leader. The Muslim converts native to Yathrib of whatever background—pagan Arab or Jewish—were called Ansar ("the Patrons" or "the Helpers").According to Ibn Ishaq, the local pagan Arab tribes, the Muslim Muhajirun from Mecca, the local Muslims (Ansar), and the Jewish population of the area signed an agreement, the Constitution of Medina, which committed all parties to mutual cooperation under the leadership of Muhammad . and also about the caravan .If you do research about it .it was actually a Battle of Badr ,the caravan was commanded by Abu Sufyan ibn Harb which is leader of the Quraysh and also an enemy of Islam . Well of course in a war Prophet Muhammad did kill a man because its a kill or be killed situation .The battle that they loss was the battle of Uhud which is they are outnumbered and much of their armies withdraw . also which Jewish city that you were stating again ? you mean Byzantine empire?

p/s the caravan leader didn't get killed

[Jew]

isis is islamic,they are getting support from other islamic states. they are part of a subculture of islam that believes something different than other people after the "prophet" died or whatever.

they should allah ackbar for a reason.
isis = islam
islam != isis

but islam is known to be the cause of extremeism and violence thru out history, which is why they are still not giving women proper rights,dont run a proper democratic state anywhere, and still carry out public executions in their coutries to scare their citizens. islam is the only religion that oppresses people from advancing in society.

christians - are a big part of this world,arent very religious and dont cause any trouble
jews - are a small part of this world but arent very religious aswell and dont cause any touble. unless you believe in anti semitism of course.
islam - the reason for conflicts thruout the last 70 years on a GLOBAL basis. im not telling you islam causes conflict,im telling you the people that believe in it are causing conflict. islam is the worst religion to be inside of a governmental system

[Janitor]

christians - are a big part of this world,arent very religious and dont cause any trouble
jews - are a small part of this world but arent very religious aswell and dont cause any touble. unless you believe in anti semitism of course.
islam - the reason for conflicts thruout the last 70 years on a GLOBAL basis. im not telling you islam causes conflict,im telling you the people that believe in it are causing conflict. islam is the worst religion to be inside of a governmental system

So you're telling me that :
Muslims kills and causes trouble and Christians & Jews doesn't ?

[Jew]

So you're telling me that :
Muslims kills and causes trouble and Christians & Jews doesn't ?

in the last 70 years? pretty much yes.

unless you want to tell me about other conflicts between jews and christians or christians and chrisitians, or jews and jews.

[Polygon]

Basically stating "real muslims don't do X" is a fallacy.

Niki's right. Except muhammed did wage a war to further his goals, instructed others to do the same(among other things like taxes), and many of his followers did what he instructed and started many wars after that.


Also, the goal of ISIS is not to "convert" people, so that's kind of irrelevant.

ISIS's goal IS to convert people...that's what they have been doing all the time.
Unless I'm horribly mistaken, didn't all the people who got beheaded by ISIS first convert to the Islam?

[Janitor]

anti semitism? its kinda hard to not be anti semitic when you have soldiers breaking into your homes and kicking you out of your land, killing your family members in the process and raping your 6 year old daughter while giving you a smile, proceeded by a wink and then a small thumbs

No they are very peaceful , they don't break into Al Aqsa mosque to make Palestinians fucking mad which leads to a civilian trying to assassinate who ever planned that for them, and then they call the Palestinian a terrorist while someone who plans to ruin and discriminate and disrespect another people religion we call him civilized .
I'm not saying that Palestinians doesn't do anything but they way this works is really dumb.

Palestinian civil killed Israeli civil ==> Terrorist , uncivilized .. Israeli soldiers find him from underground and kills him (no they don't arrest) , even if he was in a Palestinian jail they break into it .
Israeli civil killed Palestinian civil ==> Goes to jail . Literally like the group of Jews who a killed a 13 years old bot , they put them in jail . Now they are out .

2 weeks ago and I eye witnessed it .. going home from university , stopped at an Israeli huge supermarket so there was this Israeli old man (35-40) harassing this Palestinian (18-21) guy and his sister and they started to body abuse him (pushing him etc..) security were just watching, the Israeli guy stopped what he was doing and like after 5 mins the young guy started punching him with a stick as a revenge .
What happened next ?
Security shoots him.

[ミHorizon彡]

Like it or not (sorry Ameer)
ISIS does want to enforce muslim/islam ways. They just do it in such a radicalist way that no other Muslims would accept them.