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  1. #46
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    Who Cares?

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    Really? so religions have brought the people together for, well, ever. But now all of the sudden they don't?
    -You can argue that it does cause problems, but surely as a whole it brings people in society together.

    And you know, I would almost agree with you, if the scientist DID prove the religions wrong. You see, they are just incredibly smart, but not using it to help society. If they did succeed in proving religion wrong, I'd be perfectly fine. But they've obviously not done so, so its a waste, and such brilliant minds wasted on such a pathetic goal.

    You see, the problem is not in the facts, its in the motive/gain.

    What do you gain from disproving religion?

    What could you do instead to better mankind?

    Such brilliant minds wasting on such childish goals.


  3. #48
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    lol u actually discussing the big bang

    /facepalm
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  4. #49
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    i dont know....i think it might of happend



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  5. #50
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    @ Paroxysm

    Earlier, You said you were atheist...I think you just conform to whatever the debate is, and you just like the argument



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  6. #51
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    doublepost. Gratz on 1337 btw Next! =)
    Last edited by why06; 03-05-2010 at 08:10 AM.

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
    - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3V View Post
    Who Cares?
    Lol. I care...

    This is nothing, back on my old site we used to discuss things like this for weeks with a bunch of old Ph.D's twice ur age NextGen. This is nothing for me I'm just getting warmed up. And so it begins.

    Paroxym, you are one of those people who seem to rely on science as a form of religion, which it is not. In fact by its vary nature science is disprovable. So by disproving religion by science you prove nothing. Science can only attempt to disprove itself. Every day someone comes up with a new reason why science should fail. It is every changing to fit our current understanding of our place in the universe.

    @Empire: There is allways the idea that nothing can be proved, but in that direction lies madness. Prove your alive? Prove you exist? I think therefore I am... well prove logic is in fact logical? Strangely enough logic is in fact illogical, because if it was logical it would be based on its on definition and a theory can not prove itself so it would be wrong.
    The point is these rules are created so that we as human beings can better manipulate our environment. That my friend is the benefit of science. The application of these theories to doing greater things. Aviaton, Rocketry, Chemisty, Computers, etc. Now you may feel that the current direction science is heading in is wrong, but who are you to say which direction is right. hundreds of years ago many people would have called Copernicus a fool. Sometimes the importance of science isn't recognized to greater society till much much later.

    @NextGen: The probability speech is very heartening. Many people can't understand large numbers, but I can and do realize when the possibility of something happening is powers of times longer the existence of the universe what a low chance that is, but then again fortune has always been in my favor. I was born on perhaps the only planet in the galaxy that could sustain life, which is like finding a grain of sand painted red at Datona Beach. I was born in a free country. Born in a stable home. Luck has been on my side, but where to look to for this. God or religion would be the obvious choice, but if I explain science with God I can prove nothing! No rather we must try to become as God ourselves, that is the only way we will understand the universe. Now what is the chance that we will truly understand everything my friend o_O? That like Empire has been saying is truly zero. and so dividing a zero possibility by zero understanding we get undefined, as the possibility of anything can only be determined as a local understanding. I'm sure like many other things there will soon come a reason to explain why such impossible things occur so frequently. In truth the probability that any theory will stand the test of time is impossible. That does not mean we should not try.

    @All: The argument is not one of belief. You can't believe science. The arguments are should we try to understand? Should we try to question our beliefs? If I drop this apple how will I know it won't go flying up into the sky. Seems like a simple Idea, but tell me NextGen what is the possibility that any earthly mammal, would ever contrive such a convoluted thought as that everything around him, and all that he sees is an illusion! That in fact at any moment that apple could not fall, but leap into the sky... There are billions of connections in the nuerons of the human mind. 2 to the billion o_O? How much is that? can you even count it? And yet it so happens that a man by the name of Issac Newton had that thought. So whatever the possibilities of the universe the possibility of the human mind is always greater. And because we are many and each so intelligent. The possibility that we will not discover something to explain these phenomenon is woefully less then that these anomalies will go unexplained while a single human intellect wonders the question: "why?"

    -why06-
    Last edited by why06; 03-05-2010 at 08:06 AM.

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
    - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  10. #53
    /b/oss's Avatar
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    i think there's some forces we don't understand..

  11. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by why06 View Post
    Lol. I care...

    This is nothing, back on my old site we used to discuss things like this for weeks with a bunch of old Ph.D's twice ur age NextGen. This is nothing for me I'm just getting warmed up. And so it begins.

    Paroxym, you are one of those people who seem to rely on science as a form of religion, which it is not. In fact by its vary nature science is disprovable. So by disproving religion by science you prove nothing. Science can only attempt to disprove itself. Every day someone comes up with a new reason why science should fail. It is every changing to fit our current understanding of our place in the universe.

    @Empire: There is allways the idea that nothing can be proved, but in that direction lies madness. Prove your alive? Prove you exist? I think therefore I am... well prove logic is in fact logical? Strangely enough logic is in fact illogical, because if it was logical it would be based on its on definition and a theory can not prove itself so it would be wrong.
    The point is these rules are created so that we as human beings can better manipulate our environment. That my friend is the benefit of science. The application of these theories to doing greater things. Aviaton, Rocketry, Chemisty, Computers, etc. Now you may feel that the current direction science is heading in is wrong, but who are you to say which direction is right. hundreds of years ago many people would have called Copernicus a fool. Sometimes the importance of science isn't recognized to greater society till much much later.

    @NextGen: The probability speech is very heartening. Many people can't understand large numbers, but I can and do realize when the possibility of something happening is powers of times longer the existence of the universe what a low chance that is, but then again fortune has always been in my favor. I was born on perhaps the only planet in the galaxy that could sustain life, which is like finding a grain of sand painted red at Datona Beach. I was born in a free country. Born in a stable home. Luck has been on my side, but where to look to for this. God or religion would be the obvious choice, but if I explain science with God I can prove nothing! No rather we must try to become as God ourselves, that is the only way we will understand the universe. Now what is the chance that we will truly understand everything my friend o_O? That like Empire has been saying is truly zero. and so dividing a zero possibility by zero understanding we get undefined, as the possibility of anything can only be determined as a local understanding. I'm sure like many other things there will soon come a reason to explain why such impossible things occur so frequently. In truth the probability that any theory will stand the test of time is impossible. That does not mean we should not try.

    @All: The argument is not one of belief. You can't believe science. The arguments are should we try to understand? Should we try to question our beliefs? If I drop this apple how will I know it won't go flying up into the sky. Seems like a simple Idea, but tell me NextGen what is the possibility that any earthly mammal, would ever contrive such a convoluted thought as that everything around him, and all that he sees is an illusion! That in fact at any moment that apple could not fall, but leap into the sky... There are billions of connections in the nuerons of the human mind. 2 to the billion o_O? How much is that? can you even count it? And yet it so happens that a man by the name of Issac Newton had that thought. So whatever the possibilities of the universe the possibility of the human mind is always greater. And because we are many and each so intelligent. The possibility that we will not discover something to explain these phenomenon is woefully less then that these anomalies will go unexplained while a single human intellect wonders the question: "why?"

    -why06-
    As always, Well said

    Offtopic -
    and thanks, Just waiting for the actual ban/unban ( hasn't happened yet, Which is fine cause I can still do my tasks in vb section, just can't post...so back and forth on accounts)
    Last edited by NextGen(1); 03-05-2010 at 09:39 AM.


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  12. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major_the_hacker View Post
    i think there's some forces we don't understand..
    there should be a lot of forces we dont under stand...there are so many



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  13. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextGen(1) View Post
    The theory of BBT was crap, and it's still crap.
    It isn't Fact, That's why it's called a theory.... So why does everyone debate theories, I have a theory that I have superpowers (not really) where are my advocates..... No where.... really....? Why.... Because it is far-fetched, and there is no real proof, just a theory.

    So let me get this right, All matter in the universe was one Big Giant load of crap...Who's mass was so great

    That it exploded , and out of this explosion was spewing matter as if the man above had eaten to many burgers, and that matter began to clump together, (kind of like that time I left the milk out on the counter and it went bad on me......) and that formed stars, and those dead stars ....planets, and eventually came "Higher Life forms " like Paroxysm over here....

    For all this matter to come together like that, Would mean it just had to be adrift aimlessly........In ...One....Freaking...Spot....!.....

    Actually, I am almost 100% sure it would have not been moving at all, then it would be theoretically possible that they were situated in such a manner that the gravitation effects on all the particles of and all this other crap would be equal to 0

    Well..... That means all this gunk would have had to be still.... motionless....not moving at all....., in what we know as an infinite area. Ok....for paroxysm sake, lets just say that is possible.

    Where did all this matter come from? We know l you can't create matter, according to this really smart physics type guys/girls who do nothing but consider it.

    Does that mean that all this crap was just out there floating in space like a bunch rat crap in a swimming pool in NYX, Just waiting for the right moment to be Smooched together like an awkward kiss....

    Doesn't seem "kosher" to me....
    Ok fine you want a proper retort?

    1. If you honestly think theory in the scientific sense of the word is the same as the word theory in the laymen form, you haven't been paying attention in science class.

    2. We don't know where the energy from the BB came from. We don't know a lot of things, but that doesn't automatically lend credence to supernatural claims.

    3. Let's for the sake of argument say that you have completely rendered the big bang in invalid explanation for the origin of the universe. Where does your God square in? It's kind of like the Intelligent Design folks claiming they've disproven evolutionary theory, ID must be how it happened. No I'm sorry but that's not how science works. I can look at a tree on a hill and see apple on the bottom of the hill and assume that the apple came from that tree, then you could come along and say "No I came here and left this apple here". You may have rendered may claim as invalid. But if you said "No I flew here on a fire-breathing dragon that shit out apples and as we flew towards this hill the dragon crapped out an apple and it landed there." That would be an invalid argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Really? so religions have brought the people together for, well, ever. But now all of the sudden they don't?
    -You can argue that it does cause problems, but surely as a whole it brings people in society together.
    And you know, I would almost agree with you, if the scientist DID prove the religions wrong. You see, they are just incredibly smart, but not using it to help society. If they did succeed in proving religion wrong, I'd be perfectly fine. But they've obviously not done so, so its a waste, and such brilliant minds wasted on such a pathetic goal.
    You see, the problem is not in the facts, its in the motive/gain.
    What do you gain from disproving religion?
    What could you do instead to better mankind?
    Such brilliant minds wasting on such childish goals.
    Are you insane? Yes individual religions have brought people together, but then they build up an "us vs. them" mentality, and in those situations violence and suffering is inevitable. If the whole world was Christian, yes there would be less violence (however that would still leave sectarian violence), if the whole world was Muslim, yes there would be less violence (however that would still leave sectarian violence), if the whole world was Buddhist, yes the world would have less violence. But guess what? That's not the world we live in. We live in a world where Muslim nations can use Sharia law to execute women for being raped, we live in a world where radical fundamentalists here in the US, can bomb abortion clinics and feel no remorse, can shoot doctors and think they are doing God's work. We live in a world where religions have a negative effect that far outweighs any good it can bring.

    Quote Originally Posted by why06 View Post
    Paroxym, you are one of those people who seem to rely on science as a form of religion, which it is not. In fact by its vary nature science is disprovable. So by disproving religion by science you prove nothing. Science can only attempt to disprove itself. Every day someone comes up with a new reason why science should fail. It is every changing to fit our current understanding of our place in the universe.
    No, I don't rely on a science as my faith, I've tried religious belief, I've been a Christian for 16 years. It was only when I started investigating biblical claims that I started seeing flaws in my religion, it was through the search for truth that I found Christianity lacking. Science has proven to be the most accurate way to gain an understanding of the cosmos. Science doesn't fail, ideas fail, when the scientific community identifies a flaw in their understanding it's not fear we should feel, it's joy. Joy that a false understanding of reality has been rendered invalid, joy that there is more for us to search for, joy that we don't know everything. Admittedly when arguing with creationists I get polemic and I accept that, but I only do this because I've had to deal with the same ill-founded claims for the past 2 years over and over and over again. It gets amazingly frustrating when someone brings up Pascals Wager and believes it's a fool-proof argument.


    I g2g.
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 03-05-2010 at 04:03 PM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  14. #57
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    Well gee, that's a bit much to argue on My iPod. Well to make it short, paroxysm there will always be a difference in one from another, but disproving religions won't solve the issue.

    I think why wrote @ me 2...

    What I'm saying is that some scientist live their life trying to disprove religions. When in any sence that's stupid, because if there is there afterlife, they just spent their life proving there isn't.


  15. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Well gee, that's a bit much to argue on My iPod. Well to make it short, paroxysm there will always be a difference in one from another, but disproving religions won't solve the issue.

    I think why wrote @ me 2...

    What I'm saying is that some scientist live their life trying to disprove religions. When in any sence that's stupid, because if there is there afterlife, they just spent their life proving there isn't.
    Wtf, no scientists live their lives trying to disprove religions. It's only when someone tries to propagate an idea for purely religious purposes do scientists get ticked off. We should try to understand reality on realities terms, not on the archaic holy books of bronze age sheepherders.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  16. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    Wtf, no scientists live their lives trying to disprove religions. It's only when someone tries to propagate an idea for purely religious purposes do scientists get ticked off. We should try to understand reality on realities terms, not on the archaic holy books of bronze age sheepherders.
    Yet...in another section you defend Jesus as God.....Interesting....


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    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextGen(1) View Post
    Yet...in another section you defend Jesus as God.....Interesting....
    just in case you're too dense to understand what was going on:

    I TROLL THE MUSLIM-SECTION.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

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