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  1. #46
    Super Martin's Avatar
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    @ Superpunt,
    once you're a Buddhist, you'll always be a Buddhist.
    Maybe it won't be your religion, but you WILL be one.
    You won't recognize it,
    you won't know it,
    but you will be.
    Somewhere,
    very deep in your consciousness,
    and in the very deep beginning roots of your DNA,
    there will be little traces.

    At least, that's my point of view.
    (If you want the Wikipedia info, scroll down to the bottom of this post.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave84311 View Post
    dutch Buddhist, o lawd
    Thanks, now I can finally put a quote in my taggy ;3







    ~





    Karma as the law of cause and effect
    Main article: Karma in Buddhism
    Karma (from Sanskrit: "action, work") in Buddhism is the force that drives saṃsāra—the cycle of suffering and rebirth for each being. Good, skillful deeds (Pāli: "kusala") and bad, unskillful (Pāli: "akusala") actions produce "seeds" in the mind which come to fruition either in this life or in a subsequent rebirth.[17] The avoidance of unwholesome actions and the cultivation of positive actions is called śīla (from Sanskrit: "ethical conduct").
    In Buddhism, karma specifically refers to those actions (of body, speech, and mind) that spring from mental intent ("cetana"),[18] and which bring about a consequence (or fruit, "phala") or result ("vipāka"). Every time a person acts there is some quality of intention at the base of the mind and it is that quality rather than the outward appearance of the action that determines its effect[citation needed].
    In Theravada Buddhism there can be no divine salvation or forgiveness for one's karma, since it is a purely impersonal process that is a part of the makeup of the universe. Some Mahayana traditions hold different views. For example, the texts of certain Mahayana sutras (such as the Lotus Sutra, the Angulimaliya Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra) claim that reciting or merely hearing their texts can expunge great swathes of negative karma. Some forms of Buddhism (for example, Vajrayana) regard the recitation of mantras as a means for cutting off previous negative karma.[19] The Japanese Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the power to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in saṃsāra.[20][21]
    Rebirth
    Main article: Rebirth (Buddhism)
    Rebirth refers to a process whereby beings go through a succession of lifetimes as one of many possible forms of sentient life, each running from conception[22] to death. Buddhism rejects the concepts of a permanent self or an unchanging, eternal soul, as it is called in Hinduism and Christianity. According to Buddhism there ultimately is no such thing as a self independent from the rest of the universe (the doctrine of anatta). Rebirth in subsequent existences must be understood as the continuation of a dynamic, ever-changing process of "dependent arising" ("pratītyasamutpāda") determined by the laws of cause and effect (karma) rather than that of one being, transmigrating or incarnating from one existence to the next.
    Each rebirth takes place within one of five realms according to Theravadins, or six according to other schools.[23][24] These are further subdivided into 31 planes of existence:[25]
    Naraka beings: those who live in one of many Narakas (Hells)
    Preta: sometimes sharing some space with humans, but invisible to most people; an important variety is the hungry ghost[26]
    Animals: sharing space with humans, but considered another type of life
    Human beings: one of the realms of rebirth in which attaining Nirvana is possible
    Asuras: variously translated as lowly deities, demons, titans, antigods; not recognized by Theravāda (Mahavihara) tradition as a separate realm[27]
    Devas including Brahmas: variously translated as gods, deities, spirits, angels, or left untranslated
    Rebirths in some of the higher heavens, known as the Śuddhāvāsa Worlds (Pure Abodes), can be attained only by skilled Buddhist practitioners known as anāgāmis (non-returners). Rebirths in the arupa-dhatu (formless realms) can be attained only by those who can meditate on the arūpajhānas, the highest object of meditation.
    According to East Asian and Tibetan Buddhism, there is an intermediate state (Tibetan "Bardo") between one life and the next. The orthodox Theravada position rejects this; however there are passages in the Samyutta Nikaya of the Pali Canon (the collection of texts on which the Theravada tradition is based), that seem to lend support to the idea that the Buddha taught of an intermediate stage between one life and the next.[28][29]
    The cycle of saṃsāra
    Main article: Saṃsāra (Buddhism)
    Sentient beings crave pleasure and are averse to pain from birth to death. In being controlled by these attitudes, they perpetuate the cycle of conditioned existence and suffering (saṃsāra), and produce the causes and conditions of the next rebirth after death. Each rebirth repeats this process in an involuntary cycle, which Buddhists strive to end by eradicating these causes and conditions, applying the methods laid out by the Buddha and subsequent Buddhists.

  2. #47
    Dead Bones Brook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axel View Post
    Nope, it isn't. That would be just people who are a little tainted in the mind or something like that. As far as I'm concerned, nope.



    Hmm, in big lines, it isn't.
    Let me teach you all a big lessons, or something like that.
    We Buddhists, may never, EVER intentionally hurt a person.
    INtentionally.
    If he asks for it, and if we hurt him mentally by forgiving him, it isn't intentionally, it is unintentionally.
    We can't know, if we hurt him mentally, by forgiving him. Can we?
    But you are aware of people having at least a bit empathy, right? I think most people will understand how to hurt and not to hurt other people if they think about it.
    I get what you mean, though, so I guess my questions are answered.

  3. #48
    Arhk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axel View Post
    If he asks for it, and if we hurt him mentally by forgiving him, it isn't intentionally, it is unintentionally.
    We can't know, if we hurt him mentally, by forgiving him. Can we?
    Thing about forgiveness, it tortures a person because that person hasn't yet forgiven himself. More than often we create our own problems and delude ourselves into thinking all sorts of weird things "I'm a monster" "I can't be forgiven, why should I be forgiven?"
    Compared to human nature, forgiveness makes no sense at all, I think forgiveness is the most God-like thing humans are capable of doing. The obvious thing is "An Eye for an eye." but what do we do when someones lost their eye but yet forgives the person? Does it make sense?
    I think the logic behind true forgiveness on the part of the forgiver is not I should forgive this person because, "An Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", But I will forgive this person, so they can eventually forgive their self.

    Criminals who kill do so because, maybe the first time they hurt someone they never were given or took the opportunity to forgive themselves and they began to convince themselves they were monsters or murders, so they never forgave themselves and just accepted that kind of life.
    NO matter how tough someone may seem they have the feeble thinking of a child when you throw away all of the overlying crap. That person realizes they've been their own worst enemy this entire time.
    ~

    Current society likes to convince people they're monsters, rather than opening windows for forgiveness and self forgiveness. We live in a disgusting place when you look at it in that sense, we have the Gaul to condemn people when we, society are the ones who've created the ones we call "monsters"

    THe biggest thing is to forgive someone and help them forgive their self
    Last edited by Arhk; 06-11-2010 at 06:59 AM.
    "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." John 15:18

    "True strength isn't determined by when a man has a lot and gives enough, but when he has nothing left but keeps on giving."
    "A man is determined by the strength of his will."
    "Courage has nothing to do with ascertaining any sense of certainty, but the will to go on even
    in the face of uncertainty." - Arhk



  4. #49
    Brizingir's Avatar
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    i dont believe in god.
    I believe in people , in humans, into what humans can make and what humas can discover.
    I believe in science.

  5. #50
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axel View Post
    Karma as the law of cause and effect
    Main article: Karma in Buddhism
    Karma (from Sanskrit: "action, work") in Buddhism is the force that drives saṃsāra—the cycle of suffering and rebirth for each being. Good, skillful deeds (Pāli: "kusala") and bad, unskillful (Pāli: "akusala") actions produce "seeds" in the mind which come to fruition either in this life or in a subsequent rebirth.[17] The avoidance of unwholesome actions and the cultivation of positive actions is called śīla (from Sanskrit: "ethical conduct").
    In Buddhism, karma specifically refers to those actions (of body, speech, and mind) that spring from mental intent ("cetana"),[18] and which bring about a consequence (or fruit, "phala") or result ("vipāka"). Every time a person acts there is some quality of intention at the base of the mind and it is that quality rather than the outward appearance of the action that determines its effect[citation needed].
    In Theravada Buddhism there can be no divine salvation or forgiveness for one's karma, since it is a purely impersonal process that is a part of the makeup of the universe. Some Mahayana traditions hold different views. For example, the texts of certain Mahayana sutras (such as the Lotus Sutra, the Angulimaliya Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra) claim that reciting or merely hearing their texts can expunge great swathes of negative karma. Some forms of Buddhism (for example, Vajrayana) regard the recitation of mantras as a means for cutting off previous negative karma.[19] The Japanese Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the power to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in saṃsāra.[20][21]
    Rebirth
    Main article: Rebirth (Buddhism)
    Rebirth refers to a process whereby beings go through a succession of lifetimes as one of many possible forms of sentient life, each running from conception[22] to death. Buddhism rejects the concepts of a permanent self or an unchanging, eternal soul, as it is called in Hinduism and Christianity. According to Buddhism there ultimately is no such thing as a self independent from the rest of the universe (the doctrine of anatta). Rebirth in subsequent existences must be understood as the continuation of a dynamic, ever-changing process of "dependent arising" ("pratītyasamutpāda") determined by the laws of cause and effect (karma) rather than that of one being, transmigrating or incarnating from one existence to the next.
    Each rebirth takes place within one of five realms according to Theravadins, or six according to other schools.[23][24] These are further subdivided into 31 planes of existence:[25]
    Naraka beings: those who live in one of many Narakas (Hells)
    Preta: sometimes sharing some space with humans, but invisible to most people; an important variety is the hungry ghost[26]
    Animals: sharing space with humans, but considered another type of life
    Human beings: one of the realms of rebirth in which attaining Nirvana is possible
    Asuras: variously translated as lowly deities, demons, titans, antigods; not recognized by Theravāda (Mahavihara) tradition as a separate realm[27]
    Devas including Brahmas: variously translated as gods, deities, spirits, angels, or left untranslated
    Rebirths in some of the higher heavens, known as the Śuddhāvāsa Worlds (Pure Abodes), can be attained only by skilled Buddhist practitioners known as anāgāmis (non-returners). Rebirths in the arupa-dhatu (formless realms) can be attained only by those who can meditate on the arūpajhānas, the highest object of meditation.
    According to East Asian and Tibetan Buddhism, there is an intermediate state (Tibetan "Bardo") between one life and the next. The orthodox Theravada position rejects this; however there are passages in the Samyutta Nikaya of the Pali Canon (the collection of texts on which the Theravada tradition is based), that seem to lend support to the idea that the Buddha taught of an intermediate stage between one life and the next.[28][29]
    The cycle of saṃsāra
    Main article: Saṃsāra (Buddhism)
    Sentient beings crave pleasure and are averse to pain from birth to death. In being controlled by these attitudes, they perpetuate the cycle of conditioned existence and suffering (saṃsāra), and produce the causes and conditions of the next rebirth after death. Each rebirth repeats this process in an involuntary cycle, which Buddhists strive to end by eradicating these causes and conditions, applying the methods laid out by the Buddha and subsequent Buddhists.
    Sweet copy/paste but how about something more original? Everyone knows what you mean when you say karma or reincarnation.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  6. #51
    Arhk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali G View Post
    i dont believe in god.
    I believe in people , in humans, into what humans can make and what humas can discover.
    I believe in science.
    Tbh I would honestly not believe in God if the prospect weren't so depressing, by not believing in anything at all, that means Life has no greater purpose than life itself, meaning it has no value or meaning at all. And I couldn't tolerate living in a place like that, I'd either enslave the human race out of frustration, or lead a cult (ending in suicide).
    More than that it would also mean that once we died our consciousness would disappear entirely, which is also depressing, since that would mean there is no after death, when it happens it happens and I wont even exist in order to reflect on my also none existent memories.
    Meaning once all my friends die I might aswell have not existed to begin with, even though if people did remember my name and things like that in the future they didn't know me, even if they preserved my brain on a chip for a me to be there in the future it wouldn't be my consciousness so I'd still be nonexistent.
    This would mean everything we're doing doesn't matter at all, once we die we lose everything this place might aswell have not existed. It's like a dream but only thing is you don't wake up from it or remember it or anything because you didn't really exist to begin with, you were just apart of the Grand Illusion.
    ~
    If most people who didn't believe in anything at all considered what that really meant they probably wouldn't have much motive to wake up in the morning if they were a person of logic.
    Last edited by Arhk; 06-11-2010 at 07:08 AM.
    "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." John 15:18

    "True strength isn't determined by when a man has a lot and gives enough, but when he has nothing left but keeps on giving."
    "A man is determined by the strength of his will."
    "Courage has nothing to do with ascertaining any sense of certainty, but the will to go on even
    in the face of uncertainty." - Arhk



  7. #52
    Super Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    I'm familiar with Bertrand Russell and Russell's Teapot, the very fact that you bring Russell's teapot into this makes me think you have no idea what the purpose of Russell's Teapot is. The point is that one can believe what they wish, but the burden of proof is on the believer, not the skeptic. Me not being able to prove that karma doesn't exist doesn't validate your claim. Now please tell me why you think karma and reincarnation are valid.
    I think it would be a good arguement for my theory?
    Ah well, you're the most intelligent person here on MPGH, so I won't whine

    My point of view would be; I've seen people change. I've seen myself change.
    I've seen a lot of people, which I told about Karma, and what would be the benefits if they tried it.
    Some did, and other didn't.
    The people who did try it, did change.
    Some got luck, and others got wealth 'n fortune.
    It didn't matter what they got, they were all a lot happier.
    Kids, teenagers, adults, it didn't matter.
    And that made me even more confident about the existence of Karma.

    About Reďncarnation.
    I believe that Karma can't correct all of your mistakes, in just one live.
    Hmm, I need an example here..
    Ehm..
    See it like an action-reaction kind of thingie.
    When somebody punches YOU, and I stated you, because you aren't a Buddhist?, you punch him back, don't you?
    That's an action-reaction.
    Whatever you do, Karma will correct to its maximum capability.
    Of course it can't go further, as his maximum, and he will let you Reďncarnate, that he can go on, and help you improve your life.

    You really have driven me into a corner bro'.
    I'm hoping this is a good enough comeback (:

  8. #53
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhk View Post


    Tbh I would honestly not believe in God if the prospect weren't so depressing, by not believing in anything at all, that means Life has no greater purpose than life itself, meaning it has no value or meaning at all. And I couldn't tolerate living in a place like that, I'd either enslave the human race out of frustration, or lead a cult (ending in suicide).
    More than that it would also mean that once we died our consciousness would disappear entirely, which is also depressing, since that would mean there is no after death, when it happens it happens and I wont even exist in order to reflect on my also none existent memories.
    ~
    1. No Gods =/= No Morality
    2. No Gods =/= No Purpose
    3. No Gods =/= No Hope

    1) Morals are subjective whether or not God's exist.
    2) We make our own purpose in life, those that depend on God's for a purpose to their lives are an unfortunate lot.
    3) Hope is there whether or not God's exist, the only issue is that you associate all good things with your deity and that's why you think you would have no hope. Your God has too much baggage.
    Last edited by Paroxysm; 06-11-2010 at 07:12 AM.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  9. #54
    Arhk's Avatar
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    If there is no God, there's no reason for you to continue breathing that's my simple logic behind why there is a God.

    ~
    /yea
    Last edited by Arhk; 06-11-2010 at 07:20 AM.
    "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." John 15:18

    "True strength isn't determined by when a man has a lot and gives enough, but when he has nothing left but keeps on giving."
    "A man is determined by the strength of his will."
    "Courage has nothing to do with ascertaining any sense of certainty, but the will to go on even
    in the face of uncertainty." - Arhk



  10. #55
    Paroxysm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhk View Post


    If there is no God, there's no reason for you to continue breathing that's my simple logic behind why there is a God.
    ~
    /yea
    Simple logic, where is this simple logic? I don't see logic, I don't see reason, I don't see anything even resembling a logical syllogism. Here this should help you out Logic.
    "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot

  11. #56
    Super Martin's Avatar
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    And sorry for the late response, and I won't reply to everybody, I can't stand the crowd.
    I'm forever suffering from ADHD, and I just can't concentrate on everyone. So it may take some time for someone to get an answer.

  12. #57
    Superpunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhk View Post


    If there is no God, there's no reason for you to continue breathing that's my simple logic behind why there is a God.
    ~
    /yea
    There is a reason, sex.
    Humans are just like animals. We were born to get children. If we don't do it we'll become extinct. End of the story.


  13. #58
    Arhk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroxysm View Post
    1. No Gods =/= No Morality
    2. No Gods =/= No Purpose
    3. No Gods =/= No Hope

    1) Morals are subjective whether or not God's exist.
    2) We make our own purpose in life, those that depend on God's for a purpose to their lives are an unfortunate lot.
    3) Hope is there whether or not God's exist, the only issue is that you associate all good things with your deity and that's why you think you would have no hope. Your God has too much baggage.

    You disregarded all of the big picture facts I presented and started talking about shallow things relating to Human society. / Ignore your lack of logic but congratz on living a purposeless existence. I even exemplified that fact that life itself was self validating and therefore purposeless but you also used that as an arguing point?
    You also referred to hope while I referred to existence..... Are you trying to argue religion?

    ~

    Your logic is very shallow in the fact you're still relating to things like life and things like "hope"

    Inorder for us to be on the same page I need you to give up the prospect of things like that, you're hugging too close to the ideals of human superiority, if you're going to live in a world without God or an after life of some kind live it full on and understand what you're saying.
    Last edited by Arhk; 06-11-2010 at 07:27 AM.
    "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." John 15:18

    "True strength isn't determined by when a man has a lot and gives enough, but when he has nothing left but keeps on giving."
    "A man is determined by the strength of his will."
    "Courage has nothing to do with ascertaining any sense of certainty, but the will to go on even
    in the face of uncertainty." - Arhk



  14. #59
    Wolf's Avatar
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    No I am not.

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    Not me .

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