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  1. #1
    Blitz's Avatar
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    What separates two conscious entities?

    There's something that's been bugging me for a while. Ever since my brother died, and before that even, death (and life) in general has fascinated me. Well, fascinated isn't exactly the right word. They both terrify me. But, whenever I think about it, there's one thing I keep coming back to. It's a theory. Lets say you were copied. Not cloned, copied. Your exact molecular structure. Everything that is you is now in that copy. The question is, will you be that copy? Can you think with its brain or see through its eyes? I don't think so. Which raises the question, "why not"? What seperates these two people? As far as anything physically goes, they're the same person. I feel that this eliminates the idea that there's anything physical seperating any of us from "being eachother". So, if it's not physical, is there some kind of spiritual barrier? Or maybe it just doesn't exist?


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    Paladin's Avatar
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    Imagine it this way. If you wanted two copies to act the same way, it's like a science experiment. You need the exact same variables, so if even one small thing is out of place in your copy's life, it will not live the same life.

    So if you and your copy both lived at the same time on two copies of our galaxy in the exact same circumstances, you could expect the same results.

    But if you both had different thoughts or different brains, it wouldn't work. I believe if someone had your exact molecular structure, they'd be the same person.
    Last edited by Paladin; 01-15-2012 at 12:16 AM.



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    Wretched's Avatar
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    That is an interesting theory that i will never think about.
     

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    Blitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
    Imagine it this way. If you wanted two copies to act the same way, it's like a science experiment. You need the exact same variables, so if even one small thing is out of place in your copy's life, it will not live the same life.

    So if you and your copy both lived at the same time on two copies of our galaxy in the exact same circumstances, you could expect the same results.

    But if you both had different thoughts or different brains, it wouldn't work. I believe if someone had your exact molecular structure, they'd be the same person.
    So your theory is that we're separated by what we know and experience. That if there were two 100% identical copies of the same person, on two 100% identical planets in two 100% identical universes, they would be the same person? I find that hard to believe.


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    Azathᴏth's Avatar
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    I think what you are talking about is duality. The idea that the body and mind are actually 2 separate entities, and that our brain is a vassal, or a bridge, rather then the essence of the mind itself.

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    Blitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    I think what you are talking about is duality. The idea that the body and mind are actually 2 separate entities, and that our brain is a vassal, or a bridge, rather then the essence of the mind itself.
    Very interesting way to put it. I'm going to read up on that. I've never really believed in any kind of "spirituality", but it's hard for me to grasp any other kind of concept on this.


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    Paladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
    So your theory is that we're separated by what we know and experience. That if there were two 100% identical copies of the same person, on two 100% identical planets in two 100% identical universes, they would be the same person? I find that hard to believe.
    But experiences shape your life. Under the same exact circumstances and history, the two continuities would be the same. If even one molecule was out of place, though, it wouldn't be the same. Similarly, if we didn't have the same things, we wouldn't have the same people. Your parents would never have met, maybe we'd have nuclear warfare 300 years earlier, or maybe 9/11 would have failed.



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    Azathᴏth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
    Very interesting way to put it. I'm going to read up on that. I've never really believed in any kind of "spirituality", but it's hard for me to grasp any other kind of concept on this.
    Joining the Freemasons when I'm 21. There ideology is close to my own.

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    Ed's Avatar
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    When you die you see a light at the end of a tunnel

    This is you being pushed out of the womb

    All previous thoughts of who you were disappear.





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    Blitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
    But experiences shape your life. Under the same exact circumstances and history, the two continuities would be the same. If even one molecule was out of place, though, it wouldn't be the same. Similarly, if we didn't have the same things, we wouldn't have the same people. Your parents would never have met, maybe we'd have nuclear warfare 300 years earlier, or maybe 9/11 would have failed.
    That doesn't really make any sense. Whether I decide to punch you in the face with my left hand, or decide to punch you in the balls with my right, I'm still going to be the same person. Although, I also believe that time is extremely linear and only one of them would be a real possibility, but that's kind of irrelevant to the theory.


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    Paladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
    That doesn't really make any sense. Whether I decide to punch you in the face with my left hand, or decide to punch you in the balls with my right, I'm still going to be the same person. Although, I also believe that time is extremely linear and only one of them would be a real possibility, but that's kind of irrelevant to the theory.
    It's basic scientific theory that predicts it. That when all variables are the same, you'll get the same. The only discredit I can think of are random number generations, but even those could actually not be truly random, it's all a matter of perspective.



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    The mind is part of a body. If you create another body, you create another mind belonging to that body.
    Bibamus, gaudeamus.

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    Blitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    The mind is part of a body. If you create another body, you create another mind belonging to that body.
    That's the theory, but the question is: Why? Let me explain my point again. You create another body and mind, it will theoretically be a different person, even if they are both perfect molecular copies of each other. The idea is that every possible physical variable between them matches. The theory suggests that even after this, they won't be the same person. I believe there is no possible physical way to make a person 'someone else'. The reason for this is because I believe it isn't a physical property. Unless the barrier doesn't really exist (which doesn't make much sense, considering what follows that observation will just lead you back to the original question), I believe that it is the work of something above, or different than, physicality.


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    Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
    That doesn't really make any sense. Whether I decide to punch you in the face with my left hand, or decide to punch you in the balls with my right, I'm still going to be the same person. Although, I also believe that time is extremely linear and only one of them would be a real possibility, but that's kind of irrelevant to the theory.
    Think of it this way. You punch me with a right uppercut and knock me out and you walk away. But the alternate version of you chooses to punch me in the balls but doing so allows me to use a hammer I've been hiding and bludgeon you in the back of the head, and you suffer from permanent brain damage. Ergo you're no longer the same despite having the same genes, DNA, fingerprint same everything. One little experience has the potential to divert and modify the path of ones life.

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    Azathᴏth's Avatar
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    I'm starting to see what you're getting at. Even If 2 entities are identical copies of each other, they are not the same person. Because the existence of one makes individual and unique in that aspect as opposed to the other copy.

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