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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post


    It doesn't matter how much power he has among them, he doesn't have sole authority so he can't say INTEREST RATES are going to be 20% and shutdown the US Small Business economy, for good reason too. Bernanke is a figure head, the guy they hold responsible because he is chosen to follow the President's agenda, but doesn't make him any more powerful. He has to convince everyone else to vote the same way he wants... And since that's the case, there's not one thing he can do that a member of Congress can't or a US justice, or pretty much anyone. So how does he rank above people with the power to launch nukes?

    The Feds DO NOT set interest rates, period. I don't know where you've been Googling or regurgitating bullcrap, but it's wrong, and a fairly common misconception. It's determined by the free market, which is why you have such variance between banks and why HUGE BANK X that can never fail doesn't own the entire market and can predatorly price their interest rates. The Federal Funds Rate is what influences Bank Interest Rates. The Feds have plenty of power among banks, especially those in the FDIC program, but setting interest rates aren't one of them.

    And if you are going to say otherwise, you're going to have to show evidence, such as: Prime Rate | Federal Funds Rates Discount Rate Fed Fund Reserve Lending COFI

    Well then the US president doesn't have any power at all since he has to consult congress before declaring war.

    Yes, the Fed does set interest rates. The Fed sets federal funds rate to the banks, who then set the prime rates for businesses and individuals. The prime rates are based on the federal funds rate since they have to determine how much to loan out.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    Well then the US president doesn't have any power at all since he has to consult congress before declaring war.

    Yes, the Fed does set interest rates. The Fed sets federal funds rate to the banks, who then set the prime rates for businesses and individuals. The prime rates are based on the federal funds rate since they have to determine how much to loan out.
    The President can still attack other nations without going to Congress, who cares if he declares war or not? And there aren't 11 other presidents to keep him in check... So how is that even a valid argument?

    No, the Fed doesn't. The federal funds rate is not interest rates, it INFLUENCES how interest rates are set. Inflation could be sky rocketing and banks are offering 10% interest rates, and the Fed sets the funds rate to 0%. No bank in their right mind is going to follow suit, in fact, it's probably better for them. So how does that set interest rates? And with no evidence provided, and you changed your story 3-4 times, it's just obvious you are trying to save face. But then again, who would take economics advice from the guy who put Ben Bernanke on the top 10 most powerful people in the world.



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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post
    The President can still attack other nations without going to Congress, who cares if he declares war or not? And there aren't 11 other presidents to keep him in check... So how is that even a valid argument?
    If the president wants to order any troops to attack he must either get a declaration of war like the president did for WW1 and WW2 or he must get permission from Congress to attack a foreign force like the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, the only times the president doesn't need permission is if Congress can't convene. The president may order troops but this is unconstitutional and Congress pays for all of the military's affairs. Not only does the president have to get the approval of Congress, but in most present day cases the U.S. as a country will need to go through the U.N. to be allowed to get involved.


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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander X View Post
    If the president wants to order any troops to attack he must either get a declaration of war like the president did for WW1 and WW2 or he must get permission from Congress to attack a foreign force like the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, the only times the president doesn't need permission is if Congress can't convene. The president may order troops but this is unconstitutional and Congress pays for all of the military's affairs. Not only does the president have to get the approval of Congress, but in most present day cases the U.S. as a country will need to go through the U.N. to be allowed to get involved.
    Bingo, but it didn't stop the US from the Afghanistan War or Libya, if I'm correct about them not going through Congress. (Though some believe both to be unconstitutional) Not only that, but he doesn't have to go through Congress if attacked, which would still make him the most powerful man in the World, especially with the US military capabilities.

    Any treaties the US signs is also part of US law, which is the reasoning behind Libya (UN), not sure about Afghanistan.



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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post


    The President can still attack other nations without going to Congress, who cares if he declares war or not? And there aren't 11 other presidents to keep him in check... So how is that even a valid argument?

    No, the Fed doesn't. The federal funds rate is not interest rates, it INFLUENCES how interest rates are set. Inflation could be sky rocketing and banks are offering 10% interest rates, and the Fed sets the funds rate to 0%. No bank in their right mind is going to follow suit, in fact, it's probably better for them. So how does that set interest rates? And with no evidence provided, and you changed your story 3-4 times, it's just obvious you are trying to save face. But then again, who would take economics advice from the guy who put Ben Bernanke on the top 10 most powerful people in the world.

    So I'm guessing the system of checks and balances is moot...

    That's kinda what I just said....

    https://www****npaul.com/2009-12-16/r...ul-than-obama/

    Ron Paul: Well, I don’t find it offensive. I mean, they pick people who are very important and instrumental. And he certainly has been. He is an individual who in the past year has been able to counterfeit a lot of money, more than any other one man ever did in the history of the world. And he’s inherited a system that’s very secret; we don’t know what he does. He’s more powerful than the president. The president has to at least come to the Congress for the money and we can have a little oversight on the president. There is no oversight [on Bernanke], this is done in secrecy. The Federal Reserve board chairman can increase the money supply and pass it out, and nobody is allowed to know. So I say he is very, very important and why I like this is that the people are putting their attention toward the instrument of inflation and the business cycle. So I want people to look at the Federal Reserve.

    And how did I change my story 3-4 times? You kept taking what I said out of context or misconstruing my words.

    Ben Bernanke - Person of the Year 2009 - TIME

    Time Person of 2009

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pdf/pf_2.pdf

    The FOMC sets the federal funds rate at a level it believes will foster
    financial and monetary conditions consistent with achieving its monetary
    policy objectives, and it adjusts that target in line with evolving economic
    developments. A change in the federal funds rate, or even a change in
    expectations about the future level of the federal funds rate, can set off a
    chain of events that will affect other short-term interest rates, longer-term
    interest rates, the foreign exchange value of the dollar, and stock prices.
    In turn, changes in these variables will affect households’ and businesses’
    spending decisions, thereby affecting growth in aggregate demand and the
    economy
    In other words, exactly what I was saying.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    And how did I change my story 3-4 times? You kept taking what I said out of context or misconstruing my words.
    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    The Fed could raise/lower interest rates which affects millions of Americans and lower/raise inflation.
    First you say that they can lower and raise interest rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post
    And yes, the Fed does set interest rates (limits). It's the individual banks who have to adjust for inflation and choose how much to lend out. What you're thinking of is the federal funds rate which is determined by the reserve requirement.
    Then you say that the federal funds rate is independent of interest rates and I'm thinking of the wrong thing, and that the Feds still have the power to set interest rates, and now limits.

    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    Yes, the Fed does set interest rates. The Fed sets federal funds rate to the banks, who then set the prime rates for businesses and individuals. The prime rates are based on the federal funds rate since they have to determine how much to loan out.
    Now you are acknowledging that the fed can only set the federal funds rate, but once again say they are setting interest rates because setting the federal funds rate = interest rates, and banks follow the federal funds rates for their interest, which is also incorrect.

    That's 3 different stories to me.
    ----------------------

    A change in the federal funds rate, or even a change in expectations about the future level of the federal funds rate, can set off a chain of events
    Because it affects very short term loans for banks, so if the government makes it more expensive to get a loan quickly, then obviously they will raise interest rates. Note how this isn't SETTING the interest rates? The fed doesn't have the power or authority to set interest rates. A bank well off that can take gambles on loans don't even have to worry about lower federal funds rate, because it hurts savers which will lead them to move their money somewhere else. There is nothing even conceivable related to it. It's just as the word implies FEDERAL FUNDS. The Government will loan banks FEDERAL FUNDS for a short term at the FEDERAL FUNDS RATE.

    ---------------------
    edit -

    And Ron Paul is a cook, he has ideas that sound good out loud but are practically implausible. The fact that you are quoting him on economics tells me how much know about it. You're just rehashing the same bullshit he says without understanding how the system actually works.
    Last edited by arunforce; 05-04-2012 at 08:31 PM.



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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post



    First you say that they can lower and raise interest rates.


    Then you say that the federal funds rate is independent of interest rates and I'm thinking of the wrong thing, and that the Feds still have the power to set interest rates, and now limits.


    Now you are acknowledging that the fed can only set the federal funds rate, but once again say they are setting interest rates because setting the federal funds rate = interest rates, and banks follow the federal funds rates for their interest, which is also incorrect.

    That's 3 different stories to me.
    ----------------------

    Because it affects very short term loans for banks, so if the government makes it more expensive to get a loan quickly, then obviously they will raise interest rates. Note how this isn't SETTING the interest rates? The fed doesn't have the power or authority to set interest rates. A bank well off that can take gambles on loans don't even have to worry about lower federal funds rate, because it hurts savers which will lead them to move their money somewhere else. There is nothing even conceivable related to it. It's just as the word implies FEDERAL FUNDS. The Government will loan banks FEDERAL FUNDS for a short term at the FEDERAL FUNDS RATE.

    ---------------------
    edit -

    And Ron Paul is a cook, he has ideas that sound good out loud but are practically implausible. The fact that you are quoting him on economics tells me how much know about it. You're just rehashing the same bullshit he says without understanding how the system actually works.



    thats why i like ron paul he thinks like me

    he sees everything in that post and says

    fuck that shit ill just eliminate all of it

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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Bill HickCock View Post



    thats why i like ron paul he thinks like me

    he sees everything in that post and says

    fuck that shit ill just eliminate all of it
    Cuz u trippin.



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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post


    Bingo, but it didn't stop the US from the Afghanistan War or Libya, if I'm correct about them not going through Congress. (Though some believe both to be unconstitutional) Not only that, but he doesn't have to go through Congress if attacked, which would still make him the most powerful man in the World, especially with the US military capabilities.

    Any treaties the US signs is also part of US law, which is the reasoning behind Libya (UN), not sure about Afghanistan.

    We did go through Congress to U.S. troops fighting in Libya, Iraq, Afganistan and to fight against Al-Qaeda, which includes the Taliban.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander X View Post

    We did go through Congress to U.S. troops fighting in Libya, Iraq, Afganistan and to fight against Al-Qaeda, which includes the Taliban.
    What I talking about was a Declaration of War, even though the Afghan war wasn't directly about the country. I understand that Congress may have approved funding, or what not, but there are people who say that using US troops without a declaration of war is against the constitution which I thought you were referring to.

    Obama used US troops to enforce a no fly zone, without getting a declaration of war through the US Congress, simply through the UN treaty.



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    Quote Originally Posted by arunforce View Post
    [FONT="Verdana"]


    First you say that they can lower and raise interest rates.


    Then you say that the federal funds rate is independent of interest rates and I'm thinking of the wrong thing, and that the Feds still have the power to set interest rates, and now limits.


    Now you are acknowledging that the fed can only set the federal funds rate, but once again say they are setting interest rates because setting the federal funds rate = interest rates, and banks follow the federal funds rates for their interest, which is also incorrect.

    That's 3 different stories to me.
    ----------------------

    Because it affects very short term loans for banks, so if the government makes it more expensive to get a loan quickly, then obviously they will raise interest rates. Note how this isn't SETTING the interest rates? The fed doesn't have the power or authority to set interest rates. A bank well off that can take gambles on loans don't even have to worry about lower federal funds rate, because it hurts savers which will lead them to move their money somewhere else. There is nothing even conceivable related to it. It's just as the word implies FEDERAL FUNDS. The Government will loan banks FEDERAL FUNDS for a short term at the FEDERAL FUNDS RATE.

    ---------------------
    edit -

    And Ron Paul is a cook, he has ideas that sound good out loud but are practically implausible. The fact that you are quoting him on economics tells me how much know about it. You're just rehashing the same bullshit he says without understanding how the system actually works.
    So the Fed does have influence over the prime rate since the federal funds rate affects it.

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    So the Fed does have influence over the prime rate since the federal funds rate affects it.
    Like I have been saying all along, they can't set interest rates but they can influence it by changing the rate at which they loan money.



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