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  1. #1
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    Someone explain to me how ObamaCare is good with sources

    I have this fucking friend on facebook who made a what seemed to be satirical post on ObamaCare, so I added my two cents on it, and he was like "Okay, let me explain this to you like a five year old" and just listed absolutely EVERYTHING that was fed to us by Obama and his advisors.

    So I'm looking for someone to explain to me why ObamaCare is good, with reliable sources, and how they outweight the cons. If not, do the opposite for me, I'm obviously only "five years old" so I don't fucking understand a damn thing about this god damn bill and mandate.

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    InCognito's Avatar
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    SWEDEN HAS IT WORSE
    Sweden to give illegal immigrants healthcare - The Local


    ---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

    Obamacare Facts

    I honestly do not know anything about politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InCognito View Post
    SWEDEN HAS IT WORSE
    Sweden to give illegal immigrants healthcare - The Local


    ---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

    Obamacare Facts

    I honestly do not know anything about politics.
    God damnit I already knew all that, but thanks. So far I haven't found a single lick of truth in anything this kid has posted. Basically, every pro he put is counter-acted by the cons.

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    because it protects me under a dependency for 3 more years, let's just remove that when it no longer applicable to me.



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    There are lots more but the con's outweigh the pro's but even then in my opinion I think it should go on, because you got to spend money to help the people right?
    Think about the long run, not the short.

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    Obamacare- tax the wealthy, then use the money to pay for everyone's healthcare plans.

    Only downside is the costs of implementing the new plan will add to the deficit. It will also set a precedent for the federal government involving itself in people's choices.

    Better than nothing I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn69 View Post
    Obamacare- tax the wealthy, then use the money to pay for everyone's healthcare plans.

    Only downside is the costs of implementing the new plan will add to the deficit. It will also set a precedent for the federal government involving itself in people's choices.

    Better than nothing I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian View Post

    There are lots more but the con's outweigh the pro's but even then in my opinion I think it should go on, because you got to spend money to help the people right?
    Think about the long run, not the short.
    This is what I replied, to him, everything I mentioned is from statistical evidence. I basically proved it will hurt America more than help it, and in fact will destroy America's economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Dude, it's not that I don't want the people to live, I just don't see any statistic that you said under factual claims on any trustworthy source. I see the back and forths between ObamaCare pro's and Cons but so far I'm seeing the cons outweigh the Pro's. I'll start with the Seniors. Almost a quarter of Senior Citizens rely on Medicare's private sector Medicare Advantage, yet the PPACA is going to slash the spending in that program, where the money will be going to the PPACA instead, and directly quoted from the Medicaid chief actuary: "within 5 years, Obamacare would cause the number of seniors on Medicare Advantage to be cut in half". Meanwhile, Obama spent 8.35 billion in a “demonstration project” for his healthcare coverage, meanwhile that money could be going to people who actually need it, and not just to cover his ass for the remainder of the campaign. Best part is, the GOA's latest report on the matter doesn't show any sign of this, more of a coverup for his ass until his re-election (or so he wants). This didn't even go through Congress, the HHS just used a technicality to send it through, and this is TAXPAYER MONEY. This Demo costs more than 85 of the Demo's ran through during the Clinton Administration combined! This Demo is only delaying the Medicare Advantage cuts, and the pro's of this so called "Demonstration Project" only rewards those standardized plans that have a 3-star rating at the most, and in minimal amounts. Meanwhile, the plans that are below 3-stars are getting absolutely nothing from this project, the DP is going DIRECTLY to Medicare Advantage, but the 8.3 billion will only last five years maximum. So why, do I ask, is it that the lower 13 percent are getting nothing from this DP, if OC is aimed for those who can not afford it? The worst part is, MA is already next to bankruptcy, and it only really benefits Senior Citizens, you know, the people who already went through hell and back in this country only to get jack shit in return?

    And I don't know where you're getting the information on more funding for drugs/drug-related developing research organizations, but from about every site I've read there are going to be NEW taxes on drug companies and those who create medical devices for home use. 27 billion on drug research and 20 billion on medical device manufacturers will do nothing but HURT us. We will see Diabetes BSS's go from a measily 15~20 bucks to 50. This is only going to slow down the amount of time it would normally take for someone who is elderly or even someone who isn't to gain the care they need. By that time they will already be dead or in massive debt (which will end up in the hands of their family members) to medical care organizations that will NEED to charge obsurd fees just to keep their teams employeed.
    Speaking of family members, let's check out what our future deficit will be and how this will affect us and our children. "$52 billion in new taxes will be imposed on businesses by mandating that employers provide health insurance.". This will cause business's to lay hundreds of people off at a time, just to be able to afford the new mandates imposed by the PPACA. The CBO director testified in front of the HBC that the PPACA will result in ~800,00 jobs being lost, and I don't know about you but that doesn't sound beneficial to about 800,000 people. What's worse, is that by 2019 an estimated 80 million people will be on Medicaid, which will need to be funded from SOMEWHERE, and where else but the middle-class and lower family group. By then the top-attorneys in the country will be loopholing the system for people of any higher status, causing tax increases for people like the average joe, which will DEFINITELY cause people to struggle financially. State budgets will be slashed to provide the funding for this healthcare, causing public school systems to become less effective in educating the young (such as your own son) thanks to the budget slashes that will become a ripple effect for future generations. There is a reason why twenty state attorney generals have filed suits against the bill for the people of their corresponding states, they want to protect their people. They wouldn't be doing something so drastic if there wasn't something to be fought for, this is something that puts their crededation on the line.

    The PPACA will also increase the expenditure of the government's funding towards health care making it such as the primary payer, by adding and estimated eighteen million to medicaid, which averages a reimbursement rate of ~56 percent of the market rate for medical procedures. What does this mean? More physicians will be leaving the public health business for private practice, as it would be the only practical source of income. And yes, this does mean they will be payed for "quality" over "quantity", but this will increase the COST for "quality", and increase the "quantity" as a majorum. Thanks to these statistics, an estimated 66% of doctors in America will be refusing government health programs, making the PPACA completely pointless for those who need to have procedures done by specific surgeons in their respective fields. You can be expecting the wait time for a life-threatening condition altering operation from possibly a few days, to months, and by then that said person will be dead because they could not afford the price of the private practicing surgeons who could take him the next day. And even with all of these multitude of regulations and so-called "help" from the government, there will STILL be millions left uninsured!

    The government does not know how to run this fucking country, so I'm not trusting them on the PPACA whatsoever. They already dish out more for fucking welfare than SS and Medicare COMBINED, and that's fucking ridiculous man. Meanwhile, John Doe isn't getting a job because he's making more off of welfare than he is finding a god damn job. Those are the people I don't want to help, and there are more of them than people who actually NEED welfare in general. If the government can't regulate shit like this, why trust them with my health? My family has spent over 15 grand trying to figure out what is wrong with my stomach, and that's after our health insurance, which my parents work their asses off for, paid the other 80,000 for all of the testing that was done. You want to know what that figure is going to look like in five years? All of the testing and research they did? More than 160,000 fucking dollars, for five tests and six medications. Know where I got that figure from? Dr. Matt W. Johnson, a private practice Gastroenterologist. If such simple procedures already cost so much, how will they look when people are at the edge of their seats to be the first into the office and the private practice physicians are plentiful at hand for the rich? That price is going to skyrocket, making it nearly impossible for me to get the help I was looking for, and that's for me, someone who doesn't have a life-threatening disease (yet at least). Mortality rates will INCREASE, NOT DECREASE, due to the average Americans inability to find medicinal help for a price that actually suits their budget.

    Meanwhile, we're already seeing tax increases of about 494 BILLION in 2013, which will leave our families with even LESS to work off of. Does that really sound like a "solid secure plan" to you? Hell, Obama plans on increasing taxes overall for the 2013 fiscal year by 2 TRILLION$. On top of which, his cap limits deductions at the 28 percent marginal valued tax rate, but goes for exemptions and deductions as well! We went from an estimated 321 billion hike in ten years to 584 in one fucking year, which we WILL feel the effects of at a great cost, our health.
    Yes, I know it's long, but it explains in great detail why the PPACA is BAD and should have never even been considered.

  8. #8
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    The issue I take is that we need to use a progressive tax rate to pay for shit, especially something like this. You earn more, you pay more percentage wise. It is the only way to pay for the shit we spend without further bankrupting the working class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iverson954360 View Post
    The issue I take is that we need to use a progressive tax rate to pay for shit, especially something like this. You earn more, you pay more percentage wise. It is the only way to pay for the shit we spend without further bankrupting the working class.
    Obama is proposing another 2 Trillion in tax increases overall for the 2013 fiscal year, so he definitely doesn't think the same, whereas I completely agree. The problem is, if we keep progressing the Taxes we won't be able to pay them off, and we end up bumping the middle-class into the lower middle-class, and domino effect for lower. Any class higher has the ability to pay their attorneys to find loopholes in the system, which they already do to the point where they pay no taxes at all in some areas by sacrificing a marginal amount in an annual rate to some form of government organization or another. Either way, the working man is going to continue to be fucked in the ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    the working man is going to continue to be fucked in the ass.

    We all signed up for that since the beginning of the class system, but I can't say anything about what ObamaCare actually does since I haven't read the entire bill. If you want to know what it actually does ask an attorney or graduate from law school.


    "Christian Bible, the Gospel of Mark, chapter five, verse nine. We acknowledge this as an appropriate metaphor. We are Legion, a terminal of the Geth. We will integrate into Normandy."
    -Legion

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander X View Post

    We all signed up for that since the beginning of the class system, but I can't say anything about what ObamaCare actually does since I haven't read the entire bill. If you want to know what it actually does ask an attorney or graduate from law school.
    A friend of mine is going to school for political science. His definition of the bill, "to fuck us all in the asshole, one asshole at a time". I have the cons down pat pretty well (see above) but the pro's, well, they just keep getting nullified by the cons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    A friend of mine is going to school for political science. His definition of the bill, "to fuck us all in the asshole, one asshole at a time". I have the cons down pat pretty well (see above) but the pro's, well, they just keep getting nullified by the cons.
    Political science won't be able to pick apart the bill and tell you exactly what it means, that's why many politicians have a law background.


    "Christian Bible, the Gospel of Mark, chapter five, verse nine. We acknowledge this as an appropriate metaphor. We are Legion, a terminal of the Geth. We will integrate into Normandy."
    -Legion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander X View Post
    Political science won't be able to pick apart the bill and tell you exactly what it means, that's why many politicians have a law background.
    "that's why many politicians have a law background" < and there in lies the problem. They are all attorneys in office, not statesmen like we are SUPPOSED to have.

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    Honestly I don't think it is THAT bad. There is a mandatory penalty if you don't have insurance, and prices on insurance are going to go up a bit because of a new tax for insurance companies, but there are a lot of good things. Insurers won't be able to judge you for pre-existing conditions and they can't just drop you if you get sick. There are also a lot more ways to get insurance easier. So there are some downsides, but also plenty of upsides. I don't know why people are bitching sooooo much about this considering Romney passed a bill pretty similar to this when he was governor. Now if Romney was president and trying to pass the EXACT same bill, I can guarantee you everyone would be praising him.


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    Quote Originally Posted by derkman View Post
    Honestly I don't think it is THAT bad. There is a mandatory penalty if you don't have insurance, and prices on insurance are going to go up a bit because of a new tax for insurance companies, but there are a lot of good things. Insurers won't be able to judge you for pre-existing conditions and they can't just drop you if you get sick. There are also a lot more ways to get insurance easier. So there are some downsides, but also plenty of upsides. I don't know why people are bitching sooooo much about this considering Romney passed a bill pretty similar to this when he was governor. Now if Romney was president and trying to pass the EXACT same bill, I can guarantee you everyone would be praising him.
    Who ever said we want Romney as President.

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