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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    Limitations give us possibilities. Explain to me the thought process behind given a machine perception. Computers use logic, creativity is perception. Humans can be repressed, computers can't. What's the point in building a flawed machine? What everyone doesn't understand is, true AI intelligence has no purpose. Having a machine that's able to be repressed doesn't answer anything.
    Giving a machine a conscious wouldn't be a flaw. In fact, given the AI has expandable storage capacity for it's gathering of data (intellect in this case) it would most likely eliminate emotion from it's core, noticing it as a flaw. An AI with creative onset doesn't mean it would need emotion. The AI would in itself be able to analyze thousands o pieces of artwork that are known to be "innovative pieces", and be able to extract what makes those pieces so "original" and "exceptional" compared to other pieces. From that given data it could then create a masterpiece based off the conclusions from said artwork it previously analyzed. It would take true creativity nor emotional onset for the piece, rather just te dissection of the thought process from a person perception on a previous number of pieces.

    An AI would be able to (with the technology available in the future) be given the appearance of emotional fortuitous yet it still thinks on a calculation based level.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    Giving a machine a conscious wouldn't be a flaw. In fact, given the AI has expandable storage capacity for it's gathering of data (intellect in this case) it would most likely eliminate emotion from it's core, noticing it as a flaw. An AI with creative onset doesn't mean it would need emotion. The AI would in itself be able to analyze thousands o pieces of artwork that are known to be "innovative pieces", and be able to extract what makes those pieces so "original" and "exceptional" compared to other pieces. From that given data it could then create a masterpiece based off the conclusions from said artwork it previously analyzed. It would take true creativity nor emotional onset for the piece, rather just te dissection of the thought process from a person perception on a previous number of pieces.

    An AI would be able to (with the technology available in the future) be given the appearance of emotional fortuitous yet it still thinks on a calculation based level.
    Creating artwork based on a perception of a reference isn't creativity. Creating artwork based on a reference, however, IS creativity. If it thinks on a calculation based level it isn't truly intelligent. Now the more important part is, what is a conscious. If you have a conscious you desire things. That's the flawed part about it, as long as you desire something you are flawed.

  3. #93
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    Humans come from hiding in caves to travelling at thousands of miles per hour to other planets.
    Come from being annihilated from diseases to living much higher than the expectancy rate 60 years ago.
    Come from watching a fire to watching an 70" HDTV.

    Anything is possible, infact I wouldn't be surprised if AI surpassed human intelligence.
    Just look @ that robot Honda or whatever is making, it can go from playing soccer to have a full conversation with you.
    I give it 20 years before robots go from being a futureized impossible thing to a household item/thing.

  4. #94
    Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    Creating artwork based on a perception of a reference isn't creativity. Creating artwork based on a reference, however, IS creativity. If it thinks on a calculation based level it isn't truly intelligent. Now the more important part is, what is a conscious. If you have a conscious you desire things. That's the flawed part about it, as long as you desire something you are flawed.
    I understand what your trying to say but we almost must think about of accelerated intelligence
    the very limitations your putting could be changed.
    Matter itself can become an object for change (due to fog-lets and what not) similar situation for even the metaphysical abstracts of sadness or happiness.
    With accelerated intelligence we don't know what emotions would be or if they changed in the feature for a better way to express themselves (your still of that concept that the machines would be like "what is love?" and the explode or something).

    But again this is for nothing as the accelerated makes impossible to make any real conjectures about the future why? because it will accelerate to a point beyond human comprehension so talking about is redundant cause none of our estimates will be true...at least when it reaches that point I specified in my last post.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    Giving a machine a conscious wouldn't be a flaw. In fact, given the AI has expandable storage capacity for it's gathering of data (intellect in this case) it would most likely eliminate emotion from it's core, noticing it as a flaw. An AI with creative onset doesn't mean it would need emotion. The AI would in itself be able to analyze thousands o pieces of artwork that are known to be "innovative pieces", and be able to extract what makes those pieces so "original" and "exceptional" compared to other pieces. From that given data it could then create a masterpiece based off the conclusions from said artwork it previously analyzed. It would take true creativity nor emotional onset for the piece, rather just te dissection of the thought process from a person perception on a previous number of pieces.

    An AI would be able to (with the technology available in the future) be given the appearance of emotional fortuitous yet it still thinks on a calculation based level.
    This is how IBM taught its robot how to read. The human mind is constantly seeking patterns, so IBM took this model and applied it to reading text. Basically, they showed the AI module thousands different looking letter A's and then let the computer find patterns in the letters itself. The same was done for every other letter. In the end, it was nearly efficient if not more so as us recognizing letters



    There are two types of tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want, the other is getting it.

    If you wake up at a different time in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?


  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetamay View Post
    This is how IBM taught its robot how to read. The human mind is constantly seeking patterns, so IBM took this model and applied it to reading text. Basically, they showed the AI module thousands different looking letter A's and then let the computer find patterns in the letters itself. The same was done for every other letter. In the end, it was nearly efficient if not more so as us recognizing letters
    Exactly, if we can take this concept but alter it so the robot has a lense capable of depth perception and statistical variable analysis in comparison to the patterns is notices with artwork a model could be set up to allow it to create an artistic process for a masterpiece. The amount of resource rested would be enormous, which is why I think AI is possible but not until we have even smaller yet more powerful hardware. We need computers to be abl to operate with a teraflop of memory being used as the constant data transfer rate, probably more, but we'll get it eventually I can't see cortana based AU bring possible until we can create an exact replica of a human brain in computer form, and even then we'll most likely need to find a way to copy someone's conscious to the computer hundreds of years of work ahead for something that complex, in my opinion of course.


    ---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

    AI not AU, god damn iPod!

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post


    I understand what your trying to say but we almost must think about of accelerated intelligence
    the very limitations your putting could be changed.
    Matter itself can become an object for change (due to fog-lets and what not) similar situation for even the metaphysical abstracts of sadness or happiness.
    With accelerated intelligence we don't know what emotions would be or if they changed in the feature for a better way to express themselves (your still of that concept that the machines would be like "what is love?" and the explode or something).

    But again this is for nothing as the accelerated makes impossible to make any real conjectures about the future why? because it will accelerate to a point beyond human comprehension so talking about is redundant cause none of our estimates will be true...at least when it reaches that point I specified in my last post.
    What I'm trying to say is, in the next 3-4 generations of humans or so(maybe even in 2 generations), humans will have selective traits. We already do, but with the coming years of biological advances we will be able to have exclusive traits. Everyone will have 200 IQ, incredible amounts of strength, and good looks. When all this happens, human society will go through a revolution. Computers will still be needed, but complex AIs won't be. Who the hell needs a robot that can feel when you have humans reaching the pinnacle of their potential? When people say, in the next ____ amount of years will there be complex AIs, they aren't factoring in our own evolutionary process and the changes which will come with it.

  8. #98
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    meh. It will be a minor phase. nothing like iRobot /fuck that shit

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    What I'm trying to say is, in the next 3-4 generations of humans or so(maybe even in 2 generations), humans will have selective traits. We already do, but with the coming years of biological advances we will be able to have exclusive traits. Everyone will have 200 IQ, incredible amounts of strength, and good looks. When all this happens, human society will go through a revolution. Computers will still be needed, but complex AIs won't be. Who the hell needs a robot that can feel when you have humans reaching the pinnacle of their potential? When people say, in the next ____ amount of years will there be complex AIs, they aren't factoring in our own evolutionary process and the changes which will come with it.
    Yes but what happens after that?
    The only issue I have with your idea, I think the gap that your making is that humans will reach the point your talking and just say "well im done" like as if 200 IQ is all they need (your reacting to how you feel about a situation like "who the hell needs" technically we don't need any of the things we use now but we keep making them and making smarter and faster version of them)
    not in reality, people will always want to be smarter and assist themselves with technology as they will (even know there are works to recreate the human brain through technology and there actually getting like pretty close)
    humans as you suggested will continually evolve and go through societal changes aswell as biological changes but humans will always use computer assisted technologies in order to accelerate beyond human potential which will require an A.I
    in order words human intelligence will become A.I as the distinction between machine and man will be hard to define and it will be because of humans constant need to improve themselves (a trait we share machines to optimize themselves so human evolution will also become technological evolution)
    for other reference.
    your conclusion reminds me of a movie I saw in high school Gattaca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Im talking about something sort of like this The Singularity Is Near - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    people will develop an A.I simply because they can society has already pushed into this direction and unless a neo-luddism movement occurs (for those who don't know, neo-ludism was an inspiration for the unabomber) then an A.I will be here and once its here there's no other alternative then what it brings
    Last edited by Cole; 07-29-2012 at 10:34 PM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post


    Yes but what happens after that?
    The only issue I have with your idea, I think the gap that your making is that humans will reach the point your talking and just say "well im done" like as if 200 IQ is all they need (your reacting to how you feel about a situation like "who the hell needs" technically we don't need any of the things we use now but we keep making them and making smarter and faster version of them)
    not in reality, people will always want to be smarter and assist themselves with technology as they will (even know there are works to recreate the human brain through technology and there actually getting like pretty close)
    humans as you suggested will continually evolve and go through societal changes aswell as biological changes but humans will always use computer assisted technologies in order to accelerate beyond human potential which will require an A.I
    in order words human intelligence will become A.I as the distinction between machine and man will be hard to define and it will be because of humans constant need to improve themselves (a trait we share machines to optimize themselves so human evolution will also become technological evolution)
    for other reference.
    your conclusion reminds me of a movie I saw in high school Gattaca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Im talking about something sort of like this The Singularity Is Near - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    people will develop an A.I simply because they can society has already pushed into this direction and unless a neo-luddism movement occurs (for those who don't know, neo-ludism was an inspiration for the unabomber) then an A.I will be here and once its here there's no other alternative then what it brings
    I'm not saying we will stop evolving. I'm saying our concept of society will completely change when we evolve faster then society does. Truly intelligent AIs have no purpose when humans are able to do the job faster and more efficiently. The only things which machines would be able to assist this species with is calculations. In the future, society won't be pushed towards the direction of a truly intelligent AI. AIs will be used, but not truly intelligent ones.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by noob555 View Post
    What I'm trying to say is, in the next 3-4 generations of humans or so(maybe even in 2 generations), humans will have selective traits. We already do, but with the coming years of biological advances we will be able to have exclusive traits. Everyone will have 200 IQ, incredible amounts of strength, and good looks. When all this happens, human society will go through a revolution. Computers will still be needed, but complex AIs won't be. Who the hell needs a robot that can feel when you have humans reaching the pinnacle of their potential? When people say, in the next ____ amount of years will there be complex AIs, they aren't factoring in our own evolutionary process and the changes which will come with it.
    Whoa whoa whoa. Your talking about evolution as if it's a 10 year process. It literally took us millions of years to get to where we are right now. And evolution doesn't work like that. Species don't just randomly get desirable traits. It's much more complicated then that. There are 3 main driving forces behind evolution. Environmental factors. Spontaneous mutation. And internal forces within the species, "sexual evolution".

    Environmental factors effect evolution when sudden or gradual environmental changes cause members of the species to die out. Leaving the members with the superior traits to multiply and proliferate.

    Spontaneous mutations give rise to good traits and bad traits. If the trait is good, it shall be passed on. If not, it will be an evolutionary dead end. Either the members carrying the trait shall die out, or they will make undesirable mates and shall not pass on the trait.

    Sexual evolution is interesting because it does nothing to further the survival of the individual. It just gives them a better chance to pass on their genes because they are more appealing the opposite sex. Take peacocks for example. The male has extravagant feathers. The more appealing the feathers, the more potential mates will be attracted. The females on the other hand are rather drab looking. But in all probability the males have less chance of survival since that iridescent down stands out to predators.

    We won't be having such dramatic changes until we have a firm grasp of genetic engineering and people overcome their dumb GE phobia.

  12. #102
    noob555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azathᴏth View Post


    Whoa whoa whoa. Your talking about evolution as if it's a 10 year process. It literally took us millions of years to get to where we are right now. And evolution doesn't work like that. Species don't just randomly get desirable traits. It's much more complicated then that. There are 3 main driving forces behind evolution. Environmental factors. Spontaneous mutation. And internal forces within the species, "sexual evolution".

    Environmental factors effect evolution when sudden or gradual environmental changes cause members of the species to die out. Leaving the members with the superior traits to multiply and proliferate.

    Spontaneous mutations give rise to good traits and bad traits. If the trait is good, it shall be passed on. If not, it will be an evolutionary dead end. Either the members carrying the trait shall die out, or they will make undesirable mates and shall not pass on the trait.

    Sexual evolution is interesting because it does nothing to further the survival of the individual. It just gives them a better chance to pass on their genes because they are more appealing the opposite sex. Take peacocks for example. The male has extravagant feathers. The more appealing the feathers, the more potential mates will be attracted. The females on the other hand are rather drab looking. But in all probability the males have less chance of survival since that iridescent down stands out to predators.

    We won't be having such dramatic changes until we have a firm grasp of genetic engineering and people overcome their dumb GE phobia.
    Lets talk current day evolution, for starters we select our mates. You can say well animals do too, but the difference is we have a much larger gene pool to select from as well as the ability to breed with different races. Unlike any species before us, we are aware of our environment and we choose mates with specific characteristics. We are deliberately controlling our evolution. The future is genetic engineering. I mean we can't do anything crazy like give someone a ACE gene or something, but as the future nears we're getting closer.
    In the next 100 years or so, it's going to be a 10 year process.
    Last edited by noob555; 07-29-2012 at 11:49 PM.

  13. #103
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    You guys are taking this all wrong. AI will NEVER(Or it would take INCREDIBLE amounts of compute force) work on standard x86 based computers or the binary system we use now. 1's and 0's simply wont work. We need to engineer a neural system not a simple binary computer system. We just need the blue prints from our brains to figure out how to do it. The brain is after all a type of computer. Anything "Original" that has ever been created has been based on something else(no matter what you say, you cant draw what you don't know exists). The problem with creating a HW based neural system is the fact that silicon cant reconfigure and rewrite itself. That's why I suggested a neural system printed onto a re-writable holographic substrate that could update 100's of times per second. Thats why we need the brains "Firmware", to be able control how the system updates itself in a manner that isn't a jumbled mess. People who are born with mental problems or learning disorders probably have damaged "Firmware" and that's why their neurons cant connect in a way that makes sense and thus their disability to understand things. Jumbled Neurons, Nothing clicks.
    .Gragtastic.
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