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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heartview View Post
    I feel like the bigger issue would be the parameters of the sim. Its difficult to see how a universe would turn out with intelligent being when the universe was set up by beings with their limitations of how they could direct the universe. To really find out if the idea would be true, we would need to observe a universe that is not effected by ours in any way. You know, the whole quantum physics thing 'observing something changes it'.
    That's the jist of it. The more input we enter into a simulation, the more limited it becomes, and the less "accurate" the end result is. With little amount we know (certain things possibly being incorrect), we are incapable of judging the correct parameters for creating a universe and it's associated behaviour, just imputing what already may know just results in a biased simulation. It would be near impossible with current knowledge and technology to create a near representation of creating a unique universe and it's development. Hate to say it but it's akin to the creationists argument that we simply comprehend the creation of the universe. The difference is that we are getting there, but experiments like this really don't offer much value other than improving upon future simulations. I find most experiments of this kind try too hard at recreating the universe rather than attempting to create a completely fresh scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post


    We lump things we do not understand into physical references. We do not understand how this universe truly came to be in concrete stance, so we attempt to ease our minds by referencing it with something we know is true, electronics. It's in-the-box thinking and I refuse to acknowledge it.
    It's like trying to visualize what aliens look like, and just giving them a face and limbs.
    Last edited by Doc; 03-02-2013 at 07:31 PM.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    We lump things we do not understand into physical references. We do not understand how this universe truly came to be in concrete stance, so we attempt to ease our minds by referencing it with something we know is true, electronics. It's in-the-box thinking and I refuse to acknowledge it.
    What if our "programmers" actually did manage to create true AIs that can think (i.e. humans)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    What if our "programmers" actually did manage to create true AIs that can think (i.e. humans)?
    Well thats a limitation on the system. The problem is replication instead creation. If want to simulate a universe you have to initiate a catalyst and let the simulation create the rest, AI, design parameters, scope. Our current technology isn't capable of this afaik, so we can't really begin to think about what our own "programmers" did. This area of thought really is near incomprehensible for the foreseeable future.

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    Of course it'll be the same in a computer simulation, it would've been programmed by us and we'd only know of this Universe and only use physics of what we know. There aren't other factors apart from the ones we have.

    ---------- Post added at 01:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post


    Well thats a limitation on the system. The problem is replication instead creation. If want to simulate a universe you have to initiate a catalyst and let the simulation create the rest, AI, design parameters, scope. Our current technology isn't capable of this afaik, so we can't really begin to think about what our own "programmers" did. This area of thought really is near incomprehensible for the foreseeable future.
    Exactly, you put my thoughts into words. We are limited to what we can expand on because of our little intelligence. It isn't capable of expanding beyond our knowledge because we program computers and feed it with our knowledge, it doesn't feed itself.

  6. #20
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    the matrix

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post


    That's the jist of it. The more input we enter into a simulation, the more limited it becomes, and the less "accurate" the end result is. With little amount we know (certain things possibly being incorrect), we are incapable of judging the correct parameters for creating a universe and it's associated behaviour, just imputing what already may know just results in a biased simulation. It would be near impossible with current knowledge and technology to create a near representation of creating a unique universe and it's development. Hate to say it but it's akin to the creationists argument that we simply comprehend the creation of the universe. The difference is that we are getting there, but experiments like this really don't offer much value other than improving upon future simulations. I find most experiments of this kind try too hard at recreating the universe rather than attempting to create a completely fresh scenario.



    It's like trying to visualize what aliens look like, and just giving them a face and limbs.
    Exactly as I was thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    What if our "programmers" actually did manage to create true AIs that can think (i.e. humans)?
    The main reason why this is not feasible is for that simple fact on its own. In a simulation we would be comprised of data, which in itself may be limitless, but being limitless it would created its own limits. For this simulation to work, everything from the creation of the universe, to its ever-expanding nature, down to how humans come to be would need to be taken into account. Every variable would need to be worked out, every last detail. The extensive nature of such a simulation would force it into have similarities, patterns per-say, however these patterns are exclusively nonexistent in the universe we know of today. Even in the randomness, there is no pattern to how random or what kind of random, random would be. A simulation would absolutely NEED patterns to run without error, such as the simulation crashing or a morphing of the simulation into a completely different entity. In itself, the simulation would need to be constantly written by the programmers, and not a single part of the simulation generated by the simulation itself.

  8. #22
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    What if we are actually just a computer program
    and we are just the game "Sims 4"
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  9. #23
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    In the name of science! This the shit that people come up with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    The main reason why this is not feasible is for that simple fact on its own. In a simulation we would be comprised of data, which in itself may be limitless, but being limitless it would created its own limits. For this simulation to work, everything from the creation of the universe, to its ever-expanding nature, down to how humans come to be would need to be taken into account. Every variable would need to be worked out, every last detail. The extensive nature of such a simulation would force it into have similarities, patterns per-say, however these patterns are exclusively nonexistent in the universe we know of today. Even in the randomness, there is no pattern to how random or what kind of random, random would be. A simulation would absolutely NEED patterns to run without error, such as the simulation crashing or a morphing of the simulation into a completely different entity. In itself, the simulation would need to be constantly written by the programmers, and not a single part of the simulation generated by the simulation itself.
    But wouldn't that mean the machine is unable to learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgiiStylz View Post
    In the name of science! This the shit that people come up with
    Don't talk shit about science unless you're happy being a caveman
    Quote Originally Posted by Extravagant View Post
    The problem is that we're people. People are shitty beings, you just gotta keep that in mind.
    "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." - Richard Dawkins
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehsyrus View Post
    Troll nomination. Allah and Muhammad for 1400 years of bullshit.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post


    But wouldn't that mean the machine is unable to learn?



    Don't talk shit about science unless you're happy being a caveman
    Yes it would, which would defeat the purpose of a simulation.

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    Shit...I got lost half way through.

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    I enjoyed reading this


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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666HiddenMaster666 View Post
    Don't talk shit about science unless you're happy being a caveman
    Fuck school

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    There are programmers who have made programs that are able to teach themselves how to develop something to solve a certain problem. Like how to walk for instance, the computer made 100 generations and combined them with the most successful and taught itself to walk. The same could be done in creating a universe
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post

    ... but If I get banned that's 1 less retard for everyone else to deal with on the forums. If I get banned it's no biggie and there's one less retard on the forums. Win win either way.

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojanman24 View Post
    There are programmers who have made programs that are able to teach themselves how to develop something to solve a certain problem. Like how to walk for instance, the computer made 100 generations and combined them with the most successful and taught itself to walk. The same could be done in creating a universe
    Were talking about quite a jump from learning how to move pre-identified limbs to operate in a manner that moves it forward, to creating a sentient form of life capable of completely independent thought.
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