Thread: Obama is a liar

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  1. #91
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    Tell me where or stfu

    night.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    Tell me where or stfu

    night.
    Well, to do something right you gotta do it yourself.
    Like I said: REREAD YOUR SHIT.

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    yea he said he was gunna make change u kno what change stands for?

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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    arun why don't you read the other post before you post?
    i'll start with 3 since its the only point you rly made.
    Housing markets not going so good lulz. Jobs? really, i'd think you'd at least know that the job market isn't doing so well. The great depression is an example i used cus its a great example of how spending is good for the economy up to a point.
    Please don't say that the job market and housing market are up, rly obvious it isn't.

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/ONKxGko-JNI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/ONKxGko-JNI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

    here obama, to go with your spam i'll post a vid of obama's speech so you can all just be filled with "hope" or w/e it is you get from this. Though admittingly he is a good speaker. I'm done, Arun has a decent argument while obama is just trollin, I feel its pointless to argue this stuff just as it is to argue with paroxysm about religion. Well goodnight.
    I don't because it's mostly retard spam, I just read interesting posts.

    1. Housing market is doing good, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (own over half of all US home mortgages) stocks have risen significantly in value since October/March. This is partially from Freddie Mac reporting positive revenue of $1b compared to -$10b from the previous quarters. IDK about Fannie Mae. There is also statistical data supporting this, I just don't want to grow through 10 pages of shit to find it. The housing market has rebounded, at least foreclosures are stopping. Banks are lending and making a profit.

    2. I never said the job market is doing well, I said the RATE of job losses has decreased, from a quarter to quarter aspect. Just look at the derivative, this is the best sign of upward trend. Just like a car with positive velocity and negative acceleration will eventually come to a stop, if you think of jobs with negative velocity and positive acceleration, it doesn't take a genius to see where this is heading.

    3.
    Spending more doesn't mean you will turn the economy around, history tells us that.(great depression)
    And...

    The great depression is an example i used cus its a great example of how spending is good for the economy up to a point.
    Kinda contradictory there. The only short term solution to a recession is to spend your way out of it. Like Keynes said himself, the economy can recover in the long run without Government intervention, but in the long run, we will all be dead. Not his exact words. Technology is one of the best ways to secure economic growth, but the American people want today solutions, not next year solutions.



    I love how people with no background or understanding of economics or history for that matter are suggesting that this bailout is a failure.



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  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to arunforce For This Useful Post:

    DeathScourge (09-11-2009),whitten (09-11-2009)

  6. #95
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    damn Arun chillax brah
    I am the God.

  7. #96
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    Ok empire. Rebuttal?

    Don't bitch out now.


    Kinda contradictory there. The only short term solution to a recession is to spend your way out of it. Like Keynes said himself, the economy can recover in the long run without Government intervention, but in the long run, we will all be dead. Not his exact words. Technology is one of the best ways to secure economic growth, but the American people want today solutions, not next year solutions.



    I love how people with no background or understanding of economics or history for that matter are suggesting that this bailout is a failure.
    Deja vu?? Or did I tell you this yesterday and in the other thread. THE ONLY SHORT TERM SOLUTION TO A RECESSION IS TO SPEND YOUR WAY OUT OF IT. You can't spend less and expect fast results. Thats why I went on a tangent and talked about lil kids always getting their way. Thats what I think you are and thats why I think your whining.
    Last edited by Obama; 09-11-2009 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obama View Post
    Yeah, change one of the biggest countries in 9 months. Logical fail

    Even if its not better right now, it doesn't matter. Most of you bitches don't even pay taxes. You give no input into the government yet you criticize based on your limited knowledge gained by blogging and youtube videos. Fail
    arguing to a good deal of people that probably don't have a basic understanding of politics, is like trying to stop the tide.

    sad thing is, i was talking to a person yesterday who had no clue that medicare is a government-run healthcare serivce. telling me that obama is a liar and that he has plans to kill old people.
    i asked "what exactly did obama lie about", to which the guy said, "that he is going to charge americans extra money". i cut him off with, "ok, so where did you find this information, what is your source, and not from what you heard on tv. i want to know exactly what you read and what lead you to that conclusion, otherwise we have nothing to talk about". the fucker said nothing.

    sad thing is, i see people on tv all the time saying, i want obama/government to "stay out of/ leave my" medicare alone.
    i feel like im surrounded by people too lazy to take the time and conduct research on anything given to the situation at hand. truthfully the healthcare debate is actually meant to make healthcare available to all american citizens. they dont have to change thier healthcare provider if they have one. but if they dont or at least cant afford it anymore, then it is available for lesser to average citizen.
    on top of that, besides making healthcare cheaper for americans, it in truth is actually meant to help the deficit also, but no one is mentioning this at all. it was mentioned on the news once or twice, on the deficit issue, but now it is turned to propaganda.
    it's unfortunate, a man who is trying to do something better for his people(americans), and his very own are trying to demonize his actions for attempting to aid those in need.

    math lesson concerning the presidents salary since this provides from 2001, i will use this, i am still trying to find other sources.

    anyway.

    the minimum amount to have a decent living is 25k (25,000) and the president is supposedly making 400k(400,000).
    he is making 16 times more than your silly little ass. unless you make more than that,hopefully. you're talking 1/16th difference.
    why would he want to fuck you over. what is the gain for him, the deficit reach a trillion easy due to bush being in office, and this man got stuck with the pile of shit that was laid before him. he is trying to shovel it, yet certain republicans(and democrats), are trying to make the road harder. \

    i have the upmost respect for obama, because he refuses to play the race card, and in my opinion, a great deal of it is race driven. if he were white, i seriously believe there would be a big difference. glen beck called obama a racist, and in truth, the conniving turd burglar is in fact a racist himself, followed with bill O'reilly. It pisses me off when they say hesruining black communities or hispanic, followed with destroying the american dream.

    exactly what is the american dream, a woody allen film?

    for every person that has tried to do something great for the american people, they went through a ton of shit, or they been assassinated. whether it be the whole american people or those that needed direction.
    the tools they use that to lead you astray, whether it be through media or education, is damning your future as a american having a decent future. also by damning you to live a life of struggle is in fact doing harm to you as an american and should be considered an act of treason.

  9. #98
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    Lol 400k a year. Thats a fixed salary. Add all the other perks he gets heheheh

  10. #99
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    If it was really 400,000 who would spend SO MUCH CAMPAIGN MONEY

    yes i know most of it is donations

  11. #100
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    Well they did say obamas campaign generated the most money in the history of presidency

  12. #101
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    -.- you will have t0 excuse my grammar as i am typin on a smal laptop atm.

    deathscourage, i'm sorry but i'm not gonna comment fully on w/e it is you said. basically its this: to think barack obama is the night in shining armour that you've been hoping for is your choice. I don't as i just don't believe everything a person says or what the media says, i go by what they do. Every polotician worth anything can make a great speach and make you happy, but its what they do that matters, not what they say.

    what i'm saying about the great depression and spending is this:

    spendin will promote a growth in the economy. yes. that is true. But thats only true if your spending on the right stuff at the right time. Any unnessary spending is harmful to the cause of the original spending to help the economy.

    i'm probally not gonna reply to what your comments may be or w/e cus its a pain to type atm. i will later hopefully.

    for now watch this minute and a half vid.

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/70lkobYY0Hc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/70lkobYY0Hc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    -.- you will have t0 excuse my grammar as i am typin on a smal laptop atm.

    deathscourage, i'm sorry but i'm not gonna comment fully on w/e it is you said. basically its this: to think barack obama is the night in shining armour that you've been hoping for is your choice. I don't as i just don't believe everything a person says or what the media says, i go by what they do. Every polotician worth anything can make a great speach and make you happy, but its what they do that matters, not what they say.

    what i'm saying about the great depression and spending is this:

    spendin will promote a growth in the economy. yes. that is true. But thats only true if your spending on the right stuff at the right time. Any unnessary spending is harmful to the cause of the original spending to help the economy.

    i'm probally not gonna reply to what your comments may be or w/e cus its a pain to type atm. i will later hopefully.

    for now watch this minute and a half vid.

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/70lkobYY0Hc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/70lkobYY0Hc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
    i assure you, i do not think obama is a knight in shining armor. i merely stated the man has alot too deal with.

    plus, the gorilla diagram the author of the video used was a crued represenation of the system, but i did agree on some parts to which he mentioned.
    mandatory as in national debt(deficit)
    bush royally screwed the nation with repetative discretionary spending, and comepletely threw mandatory stright off the chart.
    medicare. what exactly is medicare?
    Q. What is Medicare?

    A. Medicare is the federal health insurance program that has been covering eligible persons who are 65 years of age or older since 1965. In addition, certain people with disabilities and those with end stage renal disease (ESRD) and Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) are also eligible for Medicare coverage. Medicare is available to everyone who meets the requirements, regardless of income.

    The federal government pays most of the costs of Medicare. In addition, people with Medicare share the cost of the program by paying monthly premiums, coinsurance payments, and deductibles, which are required for many of the services covered under both Parts A and B

    if obama manages to push the national healthcare exclusively for AMERICAN CITIZENS ONLY
    which in the government behaves very much like with medicare.
    national debt(deficit/mandatory) would gradually if not rapidly progress, thus deter further progression of our current recession.
    here's a disturbing fact, concerning the recession. HBO made a documentary about the closing of GM auto factory in Moraine,Ohio. despite closing the factory, 2,500 workers and 200 manager staff were forced without jobs. though this is sad enough it gets worse. besides the workers and managers suffering, the towns nereby the plant had also lost alot of workers. how much? answer 10,000. yes, 10,000 lost work as a result of the 2,700 people who lost thier jobs working for the gm plant.
    though the plant wasn't that big, it carried far more weight than what was expected. due from relentless discretionary spending, disregard for what was needed to be done, has resulted in the loss for thousands. and the scary part is, this is not the first time it's happened, just that this place was fortunate enough to have HBO perform a documentary.

  14. #103
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    uh, all of those things in the vid are mandatory spending, just to point it out. None of those has any more to do with bush than obama and you can't blame just bush or just obama for that.

    GM factory thing: look, government should keep its hands clear of failing companies, this is how i see it. If a company is going down, then let it die. Government spending on that is just setting an example of if a company dies they should raise it from the dead. GM workers losing there jobs is horrible, i know. But this isn't anything new in world of business. If a company fails, its there fault. They shouldn't ask for government money to bail em out.

    the gorrilla wasn't to scale, it was just to point out that social security and other mandatory spending should be taken care of first before adding yet another program in the same category.
    Last edited by Empire; 09-12-2009 at 01:53 AM.


  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empire View Post
    uh, all of those things in the vid are mandatory spending, just to point it out. None of those has any more to do with bush than obama and you can't blame just bush or just obama for that.

    GM factory thing: look, government should keep its hands clear of failing companies, this is how i see it. If a company is going down, then let it die. Government spending on that is just setting an example of if a company dies they should raise it from the dead. GM workers losing there jobs is horrible, i know. But this isn't anything new in world of business. If a company fails, its there fault. They shouldn't ask for government money to bail em out.

    the gorrilla wasn't to scale, it was just to point out that social security and other mandatory spending should be taken care of first before adding yet another program in the same category.
    Part-1
    i'm just going to borrow(copy and past) key parts of articles for you, but i will provide the links as well.
    Lenders talk about a “debtor’s death spiral.” It occurs when borrowers get so far in over their heads they begin borrowing money just to cover the interest payments on past borrowings. The borrowers have to do this to keep the lending flowing but they can no longer plausibly pay down the principal. As new debt compounds on old, bankruptcy becomes imminent. Further lending is foolhardy. Foreclosure is only a matter of time.
    The first signs of impending trouble are the exploding budget deficits themselves. They began, of course, under the parlous economic stewardship of Ronald Reagan. Reagan cut the marginal tax rate on the wealthiest of Americans from 70% to 38%. He promised it would spur an orgy of investment and rocket the economy to new levels of production and prosperity. Instead, his “supply side economics” did the exact opposite. It produced the deepest recession since the Great Depression.

    Output fell 2.2% in 1982 while budget deficits soared. When Reagan took office in 1981, the national debt stood at $995 billion. Twelve years later, by the end of George H.W. Bush’s presidency, it had exploded to $4 trillion. Reagan was a “B” grade movie actor and a doddering, probably clinically senile president, but he was a sheer genius at rewarding his friends by saddling other people with debts.

    Bill Clinton reversed Reagan’s course, raising taxes on the wealthy, and lowering them for the working and middle classes. This produced the longest sustained economic expansion in American history. Importantly, it also produced budgetary surpluses allowing the government to begin paying down the crippling debt begun under Reagan. In 2000, Clinton’s last year, the surplus amounted to $236 billion. The forecast ten year surplus stood at $5.6 trillion. It was the last black ink America would see for decades, perhaps forever.

    George W. Bush immediately reversed Clinton’s policy in order to revive Reagan’s, once again showering an embarrassment of riches on the already most embarrassingly rich, his “base” as he calls them. He ladled out some $630 billion in tax cuts to the top 1% of income earners. In true Republican fashion, they returned the favor by investing over $200 million to ensure Bush’s re-election. Do the math. A $630 billion return on a $200 million investment: $3,160 for $1. I’ll give you $3,160. All I ask is that you give me $1 back so I can keep the goodness flowing. Do we have a deal? Republicans know return on investment.

    This shell game with federal trust funds taints all official forecasts about Bush’s deficits going forward. For example, the Congressional Budget Office estimates Bush’s cumulative ten year deficit at $2.3 trillion, to be sure, a breathtaking shortfall from the $5.6 trillion surplus he inherited from Clinton. But as with the yearly number, this one ignores the trust fund sleight of hand, an omission of some $2.4 trillion. When this is added back in, Bush’s ten year deficit leaps to $4.7 trillion, $10.3 trillion short of Clinton’s number.

    This run-up in debt represents the most rapid, predatory looting of public wealth in the history of the world. The interest costs alone will consume the government and, soon, the entire economy. In fiscal 2004, interest costs came to $321 billion against a deficit of $415 billion. So three quarters of all the current year borrowing is spent paying interest on past borrowing. This is the most immediate symptom of the deficit death spiral.

    Part-2
    Tonight, in his first address to a joint session of Congress, President Obama is expected to lay out his plan to slash the federal deficit in half by the end of his term. The reduction would come in large part from drawing down in Iraq and allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire by 2010. On Thursday, Obama will release his first budget outline and "confirm his intention to deliver this year on ambitious campaign promises on health care and energy policy," which will help alleviate budget deficits and bring growth to the economy. And in recent days, the White House has also said that it is prepared to make "tough choices" on the budget. This fiscal situation is not a recent creation. As White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs explained yesterday, the enormous deficit Obama has to grapple with was inherited "before the stimulus." "This administration has inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit -- the largest in our nation's history," Obama reiterated.(from part one's article, what was the estimated amount? following that information, that article was from 2004, this is from 2009)
    INHERITING RECKLESSNESS: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter," Vice President Cheney said in 2002 when pushing for a fresh round of tax cuts. With this attitude in hand, Bush passed on a budgetary nightmare to his successor. Bush came into office with an advantage few presidents have enjoyed -- a $230 billion surplus. But due to a $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001, a $1.5 trillion tax cut in 2003, and a massive defense buildup through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Bush quickly blew through that surplus. The next president will "inherit a fiscal meltdown," Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) warned in February 2008, as the Bush administration projected a budget deficit of $400 billion. After the financial crisis emerged last fall and the ensuing bailouts, Bush's budget deficit ballooned to over $1 trillion. As Center for American Progress Vice President for Economic Policy Michael Ettlinger explained, budget deficits swelled under Bush because his supply-side tax policies slashed revenues while failing to deliver strong economic performance.

    Part-3
    President Bush’s proposed $3.1 trillion budget may be dead on arrival in Congress, but the impact of that political deadlock will make life difficult for the man or woman who succeeds him.
    The next president will inherit a deficit of about $400 billion, and maybe more. Unless the economy rebounds and revenue pours in, deficits will push the cumulative federal debt past $12 trillion in the next five years.
    He or she will need to spend far more in Iraq and Afghanistan than Bush proposed, because he included only $70 billion — designed to last until Jan. 20, when he leaves office. White House budget director Jim Nussle said Monday that even the cost of drawing down forces is “surprisingly high.”
    He or she will face the expiration of Bush’s tax cuts, passed in 2001 and 2003. While the leading candidates opposed them, allowing any to expire after 2010 will feel like a tax increase and has all its political risks. He or she will be closer to the projected fiscal crises facing Medicare and Social Security, which lack the tax flow to pay for benefits promised to baby boomers. Bush’s call for $208 billion in entitlement savings over five years has no chance in this election-year Congress.
    “Congress needs to know that every year they delay, the problem gets harder,” Nussle said. “Every year they delay, it becomes closer to the time when this unfunded obligation is actually going to collapse on the country.”


    Part-4
    DEFINING DEFICIT
    Government deficits
    When the expenditures of a government (its purchases of goods and services, plus its transfers (grants) to individuals and corporations) are greater than its tax revenues, it creates a deficit in the government budget; such a deficit is known as deficit spending. This causes the government to borrow capital from the 'world market', increasing further debt, debt service (interest) and interest rates (See: "crowding out" below).

    The opposite of a budget deficit is a budget surplus; in this case, tax revenues exceed government purchases and transfer payments.


    Each part is linked directly to the source of which i gained the information.still rummaging through more sources before i sleep

    Edit:

    unfortunately i have to sleep since i have to be at college by 12pm gmt eastern time today. i will have to continue this later....
    Last edited by DeathScourge; 09-12-2009 at 02:40 AM.

  16. #105
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    ok please don't copy and paste stuff, summarize

    you should be able to understand supply-side economic, its a very basic idea.

    please don't post anymore about bush spending this and that. Its all the same, written probaly from a democrat but thats not the point.

    No one is talking about bush. yet you bring him up. please stay on topic.


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