[SERIOUS] People who SE & Refund companies, how do you justify it?

[Tae]

do it if you need something after
greedy leads to bad luck
requirements lead to improvement

[Lupin]

I don't think it's ethical, but I need money, simple as that

[Lightning]

Most people say it's because they are multi bla bla bla companies and they still SE anything that comes in their way so don't expect someone who's already in this shit to tell himself "oh no i don't wanna fuck this individual up" because that won't happen. I've seen some stories from the other side where ebay sellers whom are people with families just like us get their lives ruined because of refunders. Also now anyone who brings up talks about morals gets bashed.
I personally don't have any problem with anyone who does it as long as he doesn't justify it and make it look like he's doing nothing wrong, if you are doing shit at least have the balls to admit that you are doing shit.

[Slump God]

Hello MPGH community,

I'm genuinely curious and would like to know how people who refund/SE companies are able to justify it morally/ethically?

I would appreciate a serious discussion as I really would like to know (note the serious tag).

I've gotten a few people to SE/Refund for me, and the way I justified it to myself was:

"They're a multi-million dollar company, if they lose a tiny fraction that goes into their warranty/replacement department, then it's alright... right?"

Now I'm fully aware that that's no reason to do it and is poorly justified, as it is no better than stealing and I'm still quite hesitant on SE'ing/Refunding companies as I constantly have to battle my own morals in order to justify doing it. Not being rich helps out a ton with a justification, but it's still not a valid enough reason for me.

Looking forward to hearing from you guys.

Cheers,
ByodoM.

(EDIT 1/2/2017)

Thank you to everyone that replied. I'll try my best to reply to every single one of you in a single post. I also want to say that my intention was not to call out any refunder/SE'er or offend anyone. This was a question I had and I was genuinely curious as to what you guys thought of it. Remember, this is a discussion and back and forth conversation is very welcome!

@TheJoker I agree with you. Their markup is way too high.

@Gaar's Slave I guess you're right, but that sort of justifies everything right?

@ZZAZZ_ I think you're right, if I don't have the stomach for it, I shouldn't do it.

@Shadow I see, while you're right, I think that only applies to the really big companies. I know that small companies after getting abused like to take it out on their employees by either, making cuts or by blaming it on them. Only talking about small companies though.

@Darmasus I know how messed up people are and that being too moral and ethical can backfire, however, I don't believe it applies to this case. I've been out in the streets and have met people who're way worse. I know what you're talking about, kind of like survival of the fittest.

@Vegan Feminist Morals are what separates us from animals. If we don't have at least some, how does one become better than someone else?

@Arrow Morals and ethics are needed sometimes, it's what separates us from animals.

@Saboteur While that's a decent enough reason to do it, I think there should be a line we have to set. Which is where morals and ethics play a role. How many people here do you think have physically robbed/stolen from another person? And how many do you think would?

@meme People with morals care. Not everyone can go around pretending they're Robin Hood. Whilst I agree with you, I believe there should be a line that stops us from going too far.

@Bernard. While stealing from the rich and helping the poor is something most on here would agree with, not everyone can go around becoming a vigilante this way. I believe there should be a line set, since that's what separates us from animals.

@gubernator23 That's a good reasoning, almost similar to the one mentioned by @Bernard. and @meme

@VACc1ne That's something I feel I can agree with. Screwing over millionaires in comparision to people who earn in the thousands is very different. Screwing over small companies is just wrong.

@XBSDE Many people seem to agree with your Robin Hood philosophy!

@ReverseCold You've got an interesting point of view on this. Dissimilar from most people on here and I kind of like it in a way. Sort of like the hacking policy, if you break the system long enough, they'll eventually get stronger.

@pandoraa I think I agree with you the most. Some morals and ethics are required, there must be a line somewhere.

@Chanchanbimy Fair enough. All those are valid justifications, clear and well cut.

@Redi18 So this would eliminate smaller companies or do you just agree with screwing over any company that screws other people over?

@Mirza2002 Not sure why you would assume I'm a Muslim just by reading my post (Probably because I bear the Turkey flag?). Anywho, I'm just a guy who has strong morals and ethics (well, clearly not strong enough haha) who is trying to justify this further.

@Harry Yes, I agree. That would indeed be a truly glorious place.

@nafabrown69 Correct. It's what makes us different from the animals.

@Fliest_aladdin While that's a good enough reasoning, does it really justify it though? One does not really NEED those things. One wants them. They're not a need, they're a want, something a person desires. If you're absolutely unable to make an honest living though, and this is your only choice, then I do believe it's justified.

@Speedster Fair enough. A couple others agree with this hacking philosophy of yours (breaking something to make it stronger).

@Blackhandal I would agree with you. Companies can easily take legal action against you when you fail a refund and then offer to return it.

@Gelatin-chan But where does one draw the line? You need to start caring at some point otherwise nothing is worth anything.

@Gaar Short and to the point, but then again, no one does. A line must be drawn to distinguish us from animals, and that's where ethics and morals come in.

@Dark Light I like your reasoning. But that's how it begins, when you realize how easy it is to make money by SE'ing and refunding a company and then flipping things for easy profit, you start doing it more and more. Greed is human nature, and it eventuall grows. That's where ethics and morals come in and draw the line to stop one from going overboard.

@Allectronics You share views with several others then. The idealogy of breaking something to make it better.

@eGod Most people here share that concept and as I've told many of them, it's too vague. There needs to be a line so you don't get yourself in too much trouble.

@niggo09 Not being able to afford it or wanting to spend that much is a good reason. Doing that to only big companies is alright, but small companies actually take a big bump for each SE/refund that happens.

@Dogmatic But surely one must set a line? You need morals and ethics to stop you from becoming an animal and getting into too much trouble.

@PredatorX34 You're the only person who's said that so far. And I respect that, it needed to be said. You either do it, or you don't.

Bottom line. They have more money than us. We are probably broke/don't do this for a living and want to save money. I'm not stealing from a person, but from a company.

[ByodoM]

Thanks again for all the responses and sharing your opinion whilst being a part of a discussion. I'm going to try my best to answer all of you again and give my thoughts on it as whole for now. Remember, this is a discussion and back and forth conversation is very welcome

@Gelatin-chan To each their own I suppose, I can respect that.

@ImTimeless Ah, so basically preferring pleasure over pain? But I like that you're being moral about it too, and drawing a line so you know when to stop.

@Vader Username checks out, haha. But on a serious note, you and 3 other users on here share that same idealogy. Of basically not giving a fuck because those companies screw over others. Glad you draw a line so that smaller companies don't get screwed though.

@Redi18 That's a good mindset, glad that a ton of people here share that same mindset!

@niggo09 As with Redi18, I'm glad that a ton of people here share that same mindset!

@popcornjesus Simple and clear cut, a really valid reason haha.

@cuckold cancer 8=D I see, it's good to get a confirmation from someone who's actually going into corporate. You confirmed what a lot of people here have said, that corporate doesn't care enough and deserves to get screwed because of how they treat other people. I think this however applies to companies larger than just your average home run business. You'd have to be a really spiteful person to screw over a small company who get hurt a ton by refunding/replacing you an item.

@Sin A good suggestion and a idealogy many here agree with, do it if you absolutely need to, and not get greedy.

@ArseneLupin Simple and clear cut like @popcornjesus but you know that it's unethical and yet choose to do it. I can respect that though, as long as you're not going after smaller companies that actually get hurt by any amount of refund/replacement.

@TheEnlightenedOne An idealogy that most on here share, I can respect that. At least you're drawing a moral and ethical line so you know when to stop.

@Lightning I like your response a lot, I think it's one of the best ones on here. I agree with you. One would have to be a really spiteful person to screw over a small company who get hurt a ton by refunding/replacing you an item. There's no sugar coating it, it's fraud and there's no moral or ethical justification you should be able to give for it. Regardless of whether they're a millionaire or a poor person. Now, if you're stealing from a criminal, does that make you any better? No, there's a reason vigilante's are frowned upon, it may seem good at first, but it causes more harm than it does good. Given your great response, I'd be interested in also knowing what your opinion on hacking is. Given this is basically a haven for hacks, cheats and refunders/se'ers. Although it is a really great community that I'm glad to be a part of, would love to hear your response on that.

[Slump God]

Thanks again for all the responses and sharing your opinion whilst being a part of a discussion. I'm going to try my best to answer all of you again and give my thoughts on it as whole for now. Remember, this is a discussion and back and forth conversation is very welcome

@Gelatin-chan To each their own I suppose, I can respect that.

@ImTimeless Ah, so basically preferring pleasure over pain? But I like that you're being moral about it too, and drawing a line so you know when to stop.

@Vader Username checks out, haha. But on a serious note, you and 3 other users on here share that same idealogy. Of basically not giving a fuck because those companies screw over others. Glad you draw a line so that smaller companies don't get screwed though.

@Redi18 That's a good mindset, glad that a ton of people here share that same mindset!

@niggo09 As with Redi18, I'm glad that a ton of people here share that same mindset!

@popcornjesus Simple and clear cut, a really valid reason haha.

@cuckold cancer 8=D I see, it's good to get a confirmation from someone who's actually going into corporate. You confirmed what a lot of people here have said, that corporate doesn't care enough and deserves to get screwed because of how they treat other people. I think this however applies to companies larger than just your average home run business. You'd have to be a really spiteful person to screw over a small company who get hurt a ton by refunding/replacing you an item.

@Sin A good suggestion and a idealogy many here agree with, do it if you absolutely need to, and not get greedy.

@ArseneLupin Simple and clear cut like @popcornjesus but you know that it's unethical and yet choose to do it. I can respect that though, as long as you're not going after smaller companies that actually get hurt by any amount of refund/replacement.

@TheEnlightenedOne An idealogy that most on here share, I can respect that. At least you're drawing a moral and ethical line so you know when to stop.

@Lightning I like your response a lot, I think it's one of the best ones on here. I agree with you. One would have to be a really spiteful person to screw over a small company who get hurt a ton by refunding/replacing you an item. There's no sugar coating it, it's fraud and there's no moral or ethical justification you should be able to give for it. Regardless of whether they're a millionaire or a poor person. Now, if you're stealing from a criminal, does that make you any better? No, there's a reason vigilante's are frowned upon, it may seem good at first, but it causes more harm than it does good. Given your great response, I'd be interested in also knowing what your opinion on hacking is. Given this is basically a haven for hacks, cheats and refunders/se'ers. Although it is a really great community that I'm glad to be a part of, would love to hear your response on that.

It's hard for me to scam a person since I know what it feels like and it doesn't feel good. But scamming a company is like taking a tiny bit from each person but they can't really feel the impact.