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  1. #1
    uwkont's Avatar
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    Wizardtheory asking for upfront payment

    I inquired some information about a refund from Wizardtheory and he requires $20 upfront in order to start the refund...attached below is chat

    https://imgur.com/t20QJqF

  2. #2
    Time's Avatar
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    The conversation is a month dated, provide screenshots of the entire chat so we can get proper context on this @uwkont

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    HALOS117's Avatar
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    @uwkont 24 Hours to fulfill time's request else this will be closed.

  4. #4
    Time's Avatar
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    You have 24 hours to respond to this @Wizardtheory - provide screenshots of the entire chat.

  5. #5
    Wizardtheory's Avatar
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    Hello, first of all I would like to inform one and all that I DO NOT take upfront payments.
    However, recently I have been getting a lot of requests from my customers who want to do a "Return Method" refund with me. For such refunds, I ask for a token amount of $20 or $25 in advance to pay for the shipping label charges.
    My fee for return method is 12% and that is something I charge only after my customers receive their confirmation. Till now, all of my customers have respected my goodwill and are extremely happy with my services. The vouches for the same may be found on my thread.

    I have no idea why @UKwont even agreed to my proposal in the first place even after I mentioned it to him that the $20 isn't for myself but to pay the shipping charge. Such baseless allegations shall be frowned upon.
    Again, I absolutely respect the Rules and Regulations of this website that has been providing me with so much business. Also, I place my faith on the moderators and administrators of this website that they shall look into the situation, comprehend it in its absolute merits and take the necessary step.
    In my defence, I do not believe that the community expects me to pay taxes out of my own pocket, especially when the amount is as low as $20 for a refund of about $1000-$1500. Such a situation would drain me off and leave me unable to process other orders. At the same time, I repeat, there HAS BEEN NO INSTANCE TILL NOW WHERE I HAVE DEMANDED MY FEE BEFORE COMPLETING A REFUND. I tend to REJECT offers for upfront payments even if a customer offers so.

    As for the chat screenshot, I believe that this person has removed me from their list since I am not being able to find them on IM.


    In the apocalypse, a rolex watch wouldn't get you food.

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    HALOS117's Avatar
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    @uwkont Your IM chat seems out of context. You did not provide the proof required from you. There is still time. Else this will be closed in favor of the seller.

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    While I have no reason to not be on Wizardtheory's side, the OP's post is fair. The stickied rules for refunders does clearly state "All payments for refunding services must be done after refunder gives proof of a successful refund.", and asking for an upfront payment, even if it is to cover FTID costs, seems to go against this. I totally understand the need for an up front payment to cover an out of pocket expense like this, but I think the rules should be clarified or updated, although it will be tricky, since scammers (new and exit) will take advantage of this and run with whatever money they get, since they don't have to prove anything before being paid.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bape View Post
    While I have no reason to not be on Wizardtheory's side, the OP's post is fair. The stickied rules for refunders does clearly state "All payments for refunding services must be done after refunder gives proof of a successful refund.", and asking for an upfront payment, even if it is to cover FTID costs, seems to go against this. I totally understand the need for an up front payment to cover an out of pocket expense like this, but I think the rules should be clarified or updated, although it will be tricky, since scammers (new and exit) will take advantage of this and run with whatever money they get, since they don't have to prove anything before being paid.
    Yep totally agree with this but just because he's a big refunder doesn't mean he can get special treatment, its not fair on others especially when it clearly states you can't ask for upfront payment, even though if I was to do a refund with Wizard Theory, even if I knew he's a legit refunder, I would give him the advance payment because I know he ain't going to run, as he has 100s if not thousands of vouches to his name.. Its like saying tele is banned but if a refunder uses it he will get warned to not use it again. Weird situation but Admins will do what's right, because if admins let this ride then tele should be available too

  10. #9
    Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardtheory View Post
    Hello, first of all I would like to inform one and all that I DO NOT take upfront payments.
    However, recently I have been getting a lot of requests from my customers who want to do a "Return Method" refund with me. For such refunds, I ask for a token amount of $20 or $25 in advance to pay for the shipping label charges.
    My fee for return method is 12% and that is something I charge only after my customers receive their confirmation. Till now, all of my customers have respected my goodwill and are extremely happy with my services. The vouches for the same may be found on my thread.

    I have no idea why @UKwont even agreed to my proposal in the first place even after I mentioned it to him that the $20 isn't for myself but to pay the shipping charge. Such baseless allegations shall be frowned upon.
    Again, I absolutely respect the Rules and Regulations of this website that has been providing me with so much business. Also, I place my faith on the moderators and administrators of this website that they shall look into the situation, comprehend it in its absolute merits and take the necessary step.
    In my defence, I do not believe that the community expects me to pay taxes out of my own pocket, especially when the amount is as low as $20 for a refund of about $1000-$1500. Such a situation would drain me off and leave me unable to process other orders. At the same time, I repeat, there HAS BEEN NO INSTANCE TILL NOW WHERE I HAVE DEMANDED MY FEE BEFORE COMPLETING A REFUND. I tend to REJECT offers for upfront payments even if a customer offers so.

    As for the chat screenshot, I believe that this person has removed me from their list since I am not being able to find them on IM.
    Explain to me what your return method is please, because it basically sounds like boxing.. @Wizardtheory

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    Hey @[MPGH]Time, even though I would really like to explain what the return method is, I do not wish to reveal the method in a public forum. However, I can assure you that it does not involve boxing whatsoever. Please go through my thread once and you shall find multiple instances where I have clarified that I neither practice nor condone boxing. Again, it is not FTID either. I shall explain both the concepts here.

    Boxing is sending an empty box or sometimes, a box full of garbage back to the stores. Boxing works with stores like Target which give out automated refunds as soon as the package starts tracking. However, the same method is always backed by a risk of re-billing, since when the package is delivered physically, the store's warehouse receives the empty package. It might have legal consequences as well.

    FTID or Fake Track ID (ffs it isn't Fake Tag ID) is basically a method where again a package full of garbage is sent back to the store but it gets "lost" in the process. That is, the tracking stops at one particular access point. FTID does not involve the risk of re-bills, but again, it does not work for stores like Walmart where the refund is processed only when the package is marked "delivered" on the UPS/USPS/FedEx website.

    What I do is, I get the package marked as "Delivered", however it never reaches the store. Hence, the entire liability falls upon the courier agency as the stores assume that the package got lost-in-transit. It is like a returns-DNA. Hence, it is by far the safest method for returns.
    As is obvious from my explanations, it involves manpower more than just myself. I have a dedicated team working for me specifically for handling the returns. For each such return, I have to pay them a certain amount, a percentage of which, I charge from my customers.

    However, if the rules do not allow so, I totally respect them and I shall avoid continuing the same business practice in the future.
    Kindly let me know about the same.


    In the apocalypse, a rolex watch wouldn't get you food.

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  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardtheory View Post
    Hey @[MPGH]Time, even though I would really like to explain what the return method is, I do not wish to reveal the method in a public forum. However, I can assure you that it does not involve boxing whatsoever. Please go through my thread once and you shall find multiple instances where I have clarified that I neither practice nor condone boxing. Again, it is not FTID either. I shall explain both the concepts here.

    Boxing is sending an empty box or sometimes, a box full of garbage back to the stores. Boxing works with stores like Target which give out automated refunds as soon as the package starts tracking. However, the same method is always backed by a risk of re-billing, since when the package is delivered physically, the store's warehouse receives the empty package. It might have legal consequences as well.

    FTID or Fake Track ID (ffs it isn't Fake Tag ID) is basically a method where again a package full of garbage is sent back to the store but it gets "lost" in the process. That is, the tracking stops at one particular access point. FTID does not involve the risk of re-bills, but again, it does not work for stores like Walmart where the refund is processed only when the package is marked "delivered" on the UPS/USPS/FedEx website.

    What I do is, I get the package marked as "Delivered", however it never reaches the store. Hence, the entire liability falls upon the courier agency as the stores assume that the package got lost-in-transit. It is like a returns-DNA. Hence, it is by far the safest method for returns.
    As is obvious from my explanations, it involves manpower more than just myself. I have a dedicated team working for me specifically for handling the returns. For each such return, I have to pay them a certain amount, a percentage of which, I charge from my customers.

    However, if the rules do not allow so, I totally respect them and I shall avoid continuing the same business practice in the future.
    Kindly let me know about the same.
    @Time //2short

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    Wizardtheory (4 Weeks Ago)

  15. #12
    Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardtheory View Post
    Hey @[MPGH]Time, even though I would really like to explain what the return method is, I do not wish to reveal the method in a public forum. However, I can assure you that it does not involve boxing whatsoever. Please go through my thread once and you shall find multiple instances where I have clarified that I neither practice nor condone boxing. Again, it is not FTID either. I shall explain both the concepts here.

    Boxing is sending an empty box or sometimes, a box full of garbage back to the stores. Boxing works with stores like Target which give out automated refunds as soon as the package starts tracking. However, the same method is always backed by a risk of re-billing, since when the package is delivered physically, the store's warehouse receives the empty package. It might have legal consequences as well.

    FTID or Fake Track ID (ffs it isn't Fake Tag ID) is basically a method where again a package full of garbage is sent back to the store but it gets "lost" in the process. That is, the tracking stops at one particular access point. FTID does not involve the risk of re-bills, but again, it does not work for stores like Walmart where the refund is processed only when the package is marked "delivered" on the UPS/USPS/FedEx website.

    What I do is, I get the package marked as "Delivered", however it never reaches the store. Hence, the entire liability falls upon the courier agency as the stores assume that the package got lost-in-transit. It is like a returns-DNA. Hence, it is by far the safest method for returns.
    As is obvious from my explanations, it involves manpower more than just myself. I have a dedicated team working for me specifically for handling the returns. For each such return, I have to pay them a certain amount, a percentage of which, I charge from my customers.

    However, if the rules do not allow so, I totally respect them and I shall avoid continuing the same business practice in the future.
    Kindly let me know about the same.
    Explain to me your "returns" process in IM. Payment upfront is not allowed, this is part of your refunding method then that charge is on you. HMU on IM with the explanation so I can understand if its different or not.

  16. #13
    Wizardtheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time View Post


    Explain to me your "returns" process in IM. Payment upfront is not allowed, this is part of your refunding method then that charge is on you. HMU on IM with the explanation so I can understand if its different or not.
    Messaged you over IM.


    In the apocalypse, a rolex watch wouldn't get you food.

  17. #14
    Time's Avatar
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    Have discussed with @Wizardtheory - no scam has taken place as no payment was sent or trade initiated. i've also explained the user to use an MM for any upfront payment in the future.

    /closed.
    Last edited by Time; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:45 AM.

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