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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    There is nothing here of substance that proves your point that systematic racism exist across the US. Systematic racism doesn't exist. You have sub-sectors of precincts that may be corrupt and may have racist individual officers working within them, but what you have linked me fails to provide any kind of evidence that police across America are targeting Black people. Racism exist in America, as does it in any other country around the world. There are people in powerful positions that may be racist, but this does not mean that the entire country operates on oppressing Black people. That's a ridiculous notion.

    Sorry that you think my rebuttal is mental gymnastics, because it's not. If you fail to understand my points and you continue to attempt to use the same arguments, then this discussion is pointless.
    It is mental gymnastics... you admit that people are racist but you can't accept that people can use their power to abuse another person due to race?

    In reality it would be hard to prove systemic racism exists because you don't know what is people's minds or hearts, you can only judge them by their actions. Good luck proving something like, but to say flat out that it doesn't exist is pretty lulz





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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    There are people in powerful positions that may be racist, but this does not mean that the entire country operates on oppressing Black people.
    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    You have sub-sectors of precincts that may be corrupt and may have racist individual officers working within them,

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    Systematic racism doesn't exist
    1. everything i've linked is contrary to what you have been saying.

    2. you still have no evidence of the contrary

    3. it's not "systematic", it's systemic. I let it fly on your other posts but there is a difference. Systemic means that it's widespread and impacts multiple parts of something.

    4. you're not making any more points, all you've done is reiterate the same two talking points. "It doesn't exist", "That data doesn't prove anything", when in fact, it does.

    5. where does it register in your brain that you'll accept there's people in power who are racist and that there are police departments that are racist, and still deny my entire point?
    Last edited by Confluencyy; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluencyy View Post
    3. it's not "systematic", it's systemic. I let it fly on your other posts but there is a difference. Systemic means that it's widespread and impacts multiple parts of something.
    Just wanted to post that I really liked this part.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    No, in modern day America, there is nothing given to any other race that is not given or available to Black people. Systematic racism does not exist in any form.
    First off, it's not "systematic racism" it's "systemic racism", as usually right off the fuckin rip you're wrong.

    Second, systemic racism is seen through the form of discrimination in things like housing, education, wealth, employment, criminal justice etc...

    Third, do you want me to pull the statistics on blacks being disproportionately criminalized for the same crimes whites commit at an equal or higher rate IE weed possession, blacks being put on deathrow at a higher rate, blacks having higher unemployment, etc... These are symptoms of systemic racism.



    You won't concede this. Even though everything I told you is factually correct, you don't care do ya? "Systematic racism" doesn't exist in your book, even in the face of fucking evidence. For this reason, I continue to repeat the statement you are retarded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    First off, it's not "systematic racism" it's "systemic racism", as usually right off the fuckin rip you're wrong.

    Second, systemic racism is seen through the form of discrimination in things like housing, education, wealth, employment, criminal justice etc...

    Third, do you want me to pull the statistics on blacks being disproportionately criminalized for the same crimes whites commit at an equal or higher rate IE weed possession, blacks being put on deathrow at a higher rate, blacks having higher unemployment, etc... These are symptoms of systemic racism.



    You won't concede this. Even though everything I told you is factually correct, you don't care do ya? "Systematic racism" doesn't exist in your book, even in the face of fucking evidence. For this reason, I continue to repeat the statement you are retarded.
    Hey Dab, shutup.

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  8. #21
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    Why don't they try to identify those individuals and refuse emergency services to them when they need it?

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave84311 View Post


    It is mental gymnastics... you admit that people are racist but you can't accept that people can use their power to abuse another person due to race?

    In reality it would be hard to prove systemic racism exists because you don't know what is people's minds or hearts, you can only judge them by their actions. Good luck proving something like, but to say flat out that it doesn't exist is pretty lulz
    You are seemingly misunderstanding what I've stated.

    If you look at what I said carefully, you will notice that I state that wide spread systematic oppression by the police does not exist in America, but does exist in a handful of precincts in specific cities. The study that I was linked only includes a handful of extremely high crime cities, which is not an accurate interpretation of the entire police force as a whole. Those studies don't prove that systematic or systemic racism exist across America as a whole, but instead indicates that certain cities may have this issue; which is still not even undeniably proven considering the way the study gathered certain statistics and information. I even admitted that people in power can and do abuse their power to oppress other races. I would definitely reread everything I stated man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Confluencyy View Post
    1. everything i've linked is contrary to what you have been saying.

    2. you still have no evidence of the contrary

    3. it's not "systematic", it's systemic. I let it fly on your other posts but there is a difference. Systemic means that it's widespread and impacts multiple parts of something.

    4. you're not making any more points, all you've done is reiterate the same two talking points. "It doesn't exist", "That data doesn't prove anything", when in fact, it does.

    5. where does it register in your brain that you'll accept there's people in power who are racist and that there are police departments that are racist, and still deny my entire point?
    It doesn't prove anything. You straight up ignored the majority of my rebuttals and labeled it as "mental gymnastics". One or two studies is not enough to prove anything. You should know this.

    I know what systematic and systemic means, thanks. You believe that systemic racism is an issue in the policing system as a whole, yes? I simply explained why it's not. You've yet to provide any proof that it exist, just data that suggest it could possibly exist in a extremely limited, handful amount of police precincts in some of the highest crime ridden areas in the US. What a huge flaw in your argument.

    5. where does it register in your brain that you'll accept there's people in power who are racist and that there are police departments that are racist, and still deny my entire point?
    I'm telling you it's not a widespread issue. That's the overall argument that is being pushed in the media. You cannot use a limited study to prove an overall point. That's lazy and flawed reasoning.

    The majority of police officers are not racist, are not abusive, and want to serve and protect people. The narrative that they are bad or "bastards", which is being pushed by the far-left, is extremely harmful; which leads to situations like the video I linked in the OP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    First off, it's not "systematic racism" it's "systemic racism", as usually right off the fuckin rip you're wrong.

    Second, systemic racism is seen through the form of discrimination in things like housing, education, wealth, employment, criminal justice etc...

    Third, do you want me to pull the statistics on blacks being disproportionately criminalized for the same crimes whites commit at an equal or higher rate IE weed possession, blacks being put on deathrow at a higher rate, blacks having higher unemployment, etc... These are symptoms of systemic racism.



    You won't concede this. Even though everything I told you is factually correct, you don't care do ya? "Systematic racism" doesn't exist in your book, even in the face of fucking evidence. For this reason, I continue to repeat the statement you are retarded.
    First off, it's not "systematic racism" it's "systemic racism", as usually right off the fuckin rip you're wrong.
    Both words apply to the same argument we are having. Yes, they are different, but both are used in relation to racism in the United States. So no, I'm not wrong.

    https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/sys...ystemic-racism

    Third, do you want me to pull the statistics on blacks being disproportionately criminalized for the same crimes whites commit at an equal or higher rate IE weed possession, blacks being put on deathrow at a higher rate, blacks having higher unemployment, etc... These are symptoms of systemic racism.
    Your small little brain sees these stats and instantly thinks, "oh must be systemic racism", when in reality there are multiple complex factors that are the cause of these effects. It is not always the product of racism. That's simply a lazy argument. I've linked countless videos explaining this but you straight up refuse to watch them.

    I can't be asked to continue any kind of discussion with you, because quite frankly I'm getting tired of the 80 IQ insults you have to offer and your terrible takes on the subject. In summery, you are not worth my valuable time.

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  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post


    Both words apply to the same argument we are having. Yes, they are different, but both are used in relation to racism in the United States. So no, I'm not wrong.

    https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/sys...ystemic-racism



    Your small little brain sees these stats and instantly thinks, "oh must be systemic racism", when in reality there are multiple complex factors that are the cause of these effects. It is not always the product of racism. That's simply a lazy argument. I've linked countless videos explaining this but you straight up refuse to watch them.

    I can't be asked to continue any kind of discussion with you, because quite frankly I'm getting tired of the 80 IQ insults you have to offer and your terrible takes on the subject. In summery, you are not worth my valuable time.
    Let's assign the definition of racism in this specific case to racial bias. The legislators we've elected for decades have held racial biases and passed laws that have been influenced by those racial biases. This doesn't have to be a semantic argument, but you're trying to make it one. There is wide spread governing, policy planning, legislating, and rulings that have and still are influenced by racial biases. Those statistics I pointed out about black people are a direct result of how the government has govern.

    Whether you like it or not, systemic racism exists everywhere especially the United States, so long as people are governing other people while holding biases like all humans do, there will be systemic racism. Saying there isn't, does not change a single thing. All it does is show you have no idea or grasp of what you're talking about as I've pointed out. There are causation and effects that I have pointed out. Your problem is you want to tie it directly to a singular person hating black people or throwing out racial slurs. So long as black people are disproportionately criminalized, killed, etc... there is systemic racism.

    The person who came up with the term systemic racism or rather institutional racism as it used to be called provided this definition
    The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour that amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people.


    So yet again, you are wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. You reject what I've said in the face of evidence, facts, reasoning. This is yet again, the backfire effect. In the face of these things, your prior beliefs have been reinforced because it's uncomfrontable for you to concede there is systemic racism. Glad I'm triggering you into behaving like a normal unaware human would. Recognize your psychology and fix it, because what you're doing now when collectively added up to a large scale is destroying not just this country, but has destroyed virtually every government, and enlightened era of advancements in technology or civilization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    Let's assign the definition of racism in this specific case to racial bias. The legislators we've elected for decades have held racial biases and passed laws that have been influenced by those racial biases. This doesn't have to be a semantic argument, but you're trying to make it one. There is wide spread governing, policy planning, legislating, and rulings that have and still are influenced by racial biases. Those statistics I pointed out about black people are a direct result of how the government has govern.

    Whether you like it or not, systemic racism exists everywhere especially the United States, so long as people are governing other people while holding biases like all humans do, there will be systemic racism. Saying there isn't, does not change a single thing. All it does is show you have no idea or grasp of what you're talking about as I've pointed out. There are causation and effects that I have pointed out. Your problem is you want to tie it directly to a singular person hating black people or throwing out racial slurs. So long as black people are disproportionately criminalized, killed, etc... there is systemic racism.

    The person who came up with the term systemic racism or rather institutional racism as it used to be called provided this definition




    So yet again, you are wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. You reject what I've said in the face of evidence, facts, reasoning. This is yet again, the backfire effect. In the face of these things, your prior beliefs have been reinforced because it's uncomfrontable for you to concede there is systemic racism. Glad I'm triggering you into behaving like a normal unaware human would. Recognize your psychology and fix it, because what you're doing now when collectively added up to a large scale is destroying not just this country, but has destroyed virtually every government, and enlightened era of advancements in technology or civilization.
    To the folks like Dab and Confluency who get into these debates (esp. on here) bless you guy's heart. It would be easy to consider some folk lost causes and not worth trying to give the other side of it. The fact that y'all take the time to do it is remarkable and doesn't go unnoticed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxPersona View Post
    To the folks like Dab and Confluency who get into these debates (esp. on here) bless you guy's heart. It would be easy to consider some folk lost causes and not worth trying to give the other side of it. The fact that y'all take the time to do it is remarkable and doesn't go unnoticed.
    Get the fuck off your alt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    Let's assign the definition of racism in this specific case to racial bias. The legislators we've elected for decades have held racial biases and passed laws that have been influenced by those racial biases. This doesn't have to be a semantic argument, but you're trying to make it one. There is wide spread governing, policy planning, legislating, and rulings that have and still are influenced by racial biases. Those statistics I pointed out about black people are a direct result of how the government has govern.

    Whether you like it or not, systemic racism exists everywhere especially the United States, so long as people are governing other people while holding biases like all humans do, there will be systemic racism. Saying there isn't, does not change a single thing. All it does is show you have no idea or grasp of what you're talking about as I've pointed out. There are causation and effects that I have pointed out. Your problem is you want to tie it directly to a singular person hating black people or throwing out racial slurs. So long as black people are disproportionately criminalized, killed, etc... there is systemic racism.

    The person who came up with the term systemic racism or rather institutional racism as it used to be called provided this definition




    So yet again, you are wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. You reject what I've said in the face of evidence, facts, reasoning. This is yet again, the backfire effect. In the face of these things, your prior beliefs have been reinforced because it's uncomfrontable for you to concede there is systemic racism. Glad I'm triggering you into behaving like a normal unaware human would. Recognize your psychology and fix it, because what you're doing now when collectively added up to a large scale is destroying not just this country, but has destroyed virtually every government, and enlightened era of advancements in technology or civilization.
    So long as black people are disproportionately criminalized, killed, etc... there is systemic racism.
    What a ridiculous statement. You completely ignore the reasoning to why this is, the real reasoning, and just blatantly label it "systemic racism". This is why I refuse to "debate" you any longer. I've already attempted to link you to to various videos and you just ignore them, not worth my time at all.

    In the face of these things, your prior beliefs have been reinforced because it's uncomfrontable for you to concede there is systemic racism.
    No, it just doesn't exist. I like to live in reality and not come up with excuses to my situation in life, whether that be negative or positive. Personal responsibility is key to success in life, no one is holding you back, regardless of your skin color, in America today.

    Keep living in fantasy lala land man, won't get you far in life.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxPersona View Post
    To the folks like Dab and Confluency who get into these debates (esp. on here) bless you guy's heart. It would be easy to consider some folk lost causes and not worth trying to give the other side of it. The fact that y'all take the time to do it is remarkable and doesn't go unnoticed.
    Yes, spreading misinformation and logic void points is definitely helpful to the Black community. Lets just blame their issues on the United States and not look deep into the real reasons why so many Black people are struggling. Hmm, I wonder why it really is. It can't be culture, no could it? Nah, gangster culture is good. Being raised in a single family home is good, nothing that can go wrong with that. Not like there are various studies on why these things are the top 3 leading factors to why the majority of Black people are in the situations in life that they are. Lets just keep telling them that their government and police force is targeting them, because that's totally what's happening.

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  18. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    What a ridiculous statement. You completely ignore the reasoning to why this is, the real reasoning, and just blatantly label it "systemic racism". This is why I refuse to "debate" you any longer. I've already attempted to link you to to various videos and you just ignore them, not worth my time at all.
    jesus fucking christ dude.



    Institutional racism as a term was first used by black civil rights leaders in the 1960s. It later was defined in the case of a report on some black kid over in europe who got murdered for being black in the 90s.
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../427/42703.htm


    It was later further elaborated on and defined.

    The term institutional racism should be understood to refer to the way the institution or the organization may systematically or repeatedly treat, or tend to treat, people differentially because of their race. So, in effect, we are not talking about the individuals within the service who may be unconscious as to the nature of what they are doing, but it is the net effect of what they do
    https://assets.publishing.service.go...77111/4262.pdf section 6.6




    Do you comprehend the English I am using to communicate with you? Just because some law maker doesn't go around throwing out racial slurs or think whites are superior to blacks, doesn't mean the collective actions, laws, systems they create aren't a form of systemic racism. What makes it systemic racism is the fact you have races that are disproportionately unemployed, killed by police, criminalized, etc... This is what systemic racism is and always has been referred to by. It's not a question or even a debate of whether America has systemic racism. The important questions are what can we do to reduce these rates of disproportionate criminalization, unemployment, lack of education, etc...


    I don't expect you to concede a single fucking thing, even though everything I've just told you is 100% correct. You're just going to respond with "well thats not how i define systemic racism", cool your personal opinion doesn't matter facts do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you can understand, that by simply having disproportionate rates of these type of things for specific races is literal systemic racism, then here is countless in depth detail on those different types of things that indicate systemic racism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instit...#United_States

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    No, it just doesn't exist. I like to live in reality and not come up with excuses to my situation in life, whether that be negative or positive. Personal responsibility is key to success in life, no one is holding you back, regardless of your skin color, in America today.

    Keep living in fantasy lala land man, won't get you far in life.
    Let me be very clear child, this isn't a matter of individual accomplishment, it's about collective standards. That standard being, a non-disproportionate rate of something that is a direct result of governing. IE, Employment, Health, Wealth, Education, Criminalization etc.. We can look at specific demographics by race and see Black people are criminalized at a higher rate than whites even for the same crimes they commit at equal or greater rates. This is an indicator of systemic racism, it's not an indicator of lack of individual accomplishment. As the fucking word implies, we're looking at systemic issues.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you don't agree with this, then just stop using the fucking word "systemic racism". Just say, "not all cops are racist" or "not all politicians are racist". Because the moment you come out and attempt to redefine systemic racism and claim it simply doesn't exist, and ignore the criteria for what is considered systemic racism, you just look like an absolute retard.
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  19. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    snip
    Institutional racism as a term was first used by black civil rights leaders in the 1960s. It later was defined in the case of a report on some black kid over in europe who got murdered for being black in the 90s.
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../427/42703.htm


    It was later further elaborated on and defined.
    What are you talking about? I'm not saying the word "systemic racism" doesn't exist you fucking illiterate moron. I'm referring to what you said below:

    So long as black people are disproportionately criminalized, killed, etc... there is systemic racism.
    This is what I was referring to when I said what I said in regards to you equating Black people being disproportionately criminalized or killed by police to systemic racism. I was saying there are more factors that contribute to this being the case than it simply being systemic racism. Some of which I linked you in our earlier conversations that you admitted to ignoring. How is that hard to comprehend? I'm not debating over the definition of "systemic racism". What are you on about?

    Let me be very clear child, this isn't a matter of individual accomplishment, it's about collective standards. That standard being, a non-disproportionate rate of something that is a direct result of governing. IE, Employment, Health, Wealth, Education, Criminalization etc.. We can look at specific demographics by race and see Black people are criminalized at a higher rate than whites even for the same crimes they commit at equal or greater rates. This is an indicator of systemic racism, it's not an indicator of lack of individual accomplishment. As the fucking word implies, we're looking at systemic issues.
    You call me a child yet I'm 99% sure I'm older than you or around the same age. Classic.

    Just because Black people, in some cases, may be disproportionately effected by something does not undeniably proof this is due to systemic racism. That is a lazy, weak argument. As I've said countless times, there are many more complex contributing factors that I've referenced previously that you've seemingly ignored. "Oh wow, a Black man was shot by a White cop??? RACISM!!! There could not of been a legitimate reason to why he was shot!" This is the logic you are applying to all the stated cases you referred to. Personal responsibility plays a HUGE part in where the Black community is today. Yes our history of slavery has effected them, but it does not effect them nearly as much as it was 40+ years ago. At this point, with all the opportunity lower-class citizens have, there aren't many excuses.

    Because the moment you come out and attempt to redefine systemic racism and claim it simply doesn't exist, and ignore the criteria for what is considered systemic racism, you just look like an absolute retard.
    Good thing I'm not doing this then and simply pointing out that systemic racism does not effect the majority of Black people in modern day America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERPVNK View Post
    I was saying there are more factors that contribute to this being the case than it simply being systemic racism.
    You just conceded that there is systemic racism in America. Those statistics and rates, are the result of systemic racism. Other factors playing a role in those statistics are not indicative of there being no systemic racism in America, as I pointed out earlier the simple fact certain races are disproportionately criminalized, unemployed etc... means there is systemic racism. You wanting to argue X Y and Z are more important variables than systemic racism does not help anyone especially when they're unspecified and are attempted to be used to invalidate the claim there is systemic racism.

    Bet this went over your head like everything else. I don't expect much out of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
    You just conceded that there is systemic racism in America. Those statistics and rates, are the result of systemic racism. Other factors playing a role in those statistics are not indicative of there being no systemic racism in America, as I pointed out earlier the simple fact certain races are disproportionately criminalized, unemployed etc... means there is systemic racism. You wanting to argue X Y and Z are more important variables than systemic racism does not help anyone especially when they're unspecified and are attempted to be used to invalidate the claim there is systemic racism.

    Bet this went over your head like everything else. I don't expect much out of you.
    They are more important variables, because systemic racism is not as much as a rampant issue like you believe it is, but all the other factors that contribute to their quality of live are and CAN be fixed. Lets just ignore the toxic gang culture that plagues the Black community, single mother households that lead to the children having increased chances to end up committing crimes, ending up in prison, and repeating the vicious cycle for their children. Let's just blame it on the government and not take personal responsibility, that will definitely solve the issue.

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    Last Post: 01-10-2009, 06:36 AM