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  1. #1
    Snake's Avatar
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    My opinion about having the refund threads removed

    Hi lads

    Some of you might know me, some of you might not. Alot of new people have joined, lots of oldies have left.
    I logged in recently to check up on the marketplace and noticed the refunding threads were gone, after doing a bit of a search I quickly found out why.

    My opinion isn't worth anything but I didn't find any open threads to talk about it anymore (I did come in real late though, I don't check MPGH that frequently anymore).

    As with everything profitable, saturation comes in quickly. The user services section was just absolutely filled with refunding threads being spammed day in and out.

    You would log on once in a while and check if anything new is going on but you'd only find the refund services, perhaps you'd find a new no-refund related thread 3 pages deep. You'd skip everything else and go straight there.

    I feel like MPGH made a good but risky decision: lose the leechers and lurkers, those who abuse the forum and rebuild it with those who are active and bring more to the forum.

    Those who bought the premium seller perk made their money back easily, even though it was already known by everyone that refunding will come to a halt at some point, it's a story too good to be true and as an after sales project manager I can tell you after meeting with the big names alot of them are done catching up, it'll be more about the consequences now.

    Be careful about it and stick to your own reasonable, humble profit because as you know these consequences don't come immediatly.

    I'm curious to see how the MPGH forum will roll out, I hope it'll be good as the devs have really tested our loyalty with the IM (which still sucks (sorry not sorry)).

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Snake For This Useful Post:

    [MPGH]Flengo (06-29-2021),Marketguy (07-28-2021),Noxey (06-29-2021)

  3. #2
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    "saturation comes in quickly"
    someone speaks the truth finally thanks

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    >an after sales project manager I can tell you after meeting with the big names alot of them are done catching up, it'll be more about the consequences now.

    Could you expand on this? What is this implying? Major companies are working in unison to try and prevent refunding in the future?

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    arrests

    I feel like it's refunding is deffo getting too popular and now its getting a bit risky even.

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    I dont think they can do much about it - unless ID checks are required upon delivery to the same name as ordered. Other than that, good luck proving the recipient didnt receive the package.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confluency View Post
    >an after sales project manager I can tell you after meeting with the big names alot of them are done catching up, it'll be more about the consequences now.

    Could you expand on this? What is this implying? Major companies are working in unison to try and prevent refunding in the future?
    Before I get anyone too worried, let me explain in a deeper way, it goes in a few steps:
    1:
    Samsung, Bosch, Dell, HP, .. Are all dealing with incredible losses from damaged deliveries to the wholesalers, not even your local electronics/walmart/target/bol.com/mediamarkt, the wholesaler before them.

    To combat this they're going to implement RFID chips that can sense and signal when an item has been placed wrong (like a tv on a flat side), when something has been shaken too hard etc. Upon delivery they will require a statement that declares the delivery of the goods has been checked and is acceptable, with no return in any possible way.

    So while a company is out there losing money to lost packages, they're losing almost double on damaged deliveries.
    This goes for all wholesalers.

    Once they've solved that they will move on to the next problem, but the brands will no longer be in the story.

    So here comes..

    2: We, as a huge electronics wholesaler who has bol.com, mediamarkt, amazon, cool blue as our clients have a lot of people who commit fraud, even direct fraud.
    The kind where you order as Pablo Escobar with a fake card you bought from the dark web. If they deliver you're safe and sound and nothing will ever come from it because no one will ever know (except for the card owner who might file a report).

    But before that, every wholesaler has a different bigger problem, a problem that costs every one of those company 5 million or higher every 3 months.

    Packages/pallets being lost to carriers. Yes, you read that right, carriers.
    UPS, Fedex, DHL, Bpost, PostNL are doing something much worse.

    A warehouse will never work perfect, no sane person will dedicate their life into becoming the best warehouse worker for minimum pay, so they have to keep cycling new people. New people means you'll never perfect your warehouse, it is just a fact. It is also cheaper to have new people cycling with interims etc.

    This results into lots of untraceable packages/pallets being sent out.
    Our company ran 120 million profit on Black Friday, 7 million in value was lost to carriers.

    Can you imagine? 7 million? 3 full pallets of the newest iPhones and iMacs, all of it.

    And they can't do anything about it even if it is known where the pallets or packages went, they're not permitted by law to enter and see if the items are there.

    As you can imagine this results in no direct action being taken against your average buyer, they just do not care.
    However, every company is aware of these scenarios (FTID, empty box, did not arrive) but are just not bothered.

    Some are however given the 'project' to catch on with these things and deliver a method to counter this, I was the one who received the finished projects from different big name companies, I think refunding will be safe for another 3-5 years with a lot of individual people who will suffer but most will get out safely.

    In a lot of companies where FTID has worked, the boxes are simply put on pallets and put on hold until the projects are put to work.
    You can imagine someone who has the task and authority to combat fraud finds pallets full of fake tracking labels and rocks or dead weight.

    The order number remains the same and alot of people will be billed or even prosecuted if the refund was boxed or FTID. The ones who were early may have the benefit of doubt and have had their case handled already, so they are safe.

    Those that were sent to a fake or wrong address should be safe from what's coming until they chase that but I don't see that happening soon.

    Regular refunds (empty box, not all goods delivered) will either result in a carrier being a dick to you or your store blocking you out, there is no real danger yet.

    What should also be noted: For every customer service worker who goes and checks a case like this a lot of time and resources are lost. A CS worker needs approval from higher up to take any action so for an item that may actually be lost the company may have to invest 80-100 euros easily just to do a start check. From beginning to end a case might cost them 150-350 euro's depending on how deep and hard it is, how long the refunder insists (which is why some CS reps give up and give in even if it is such an obvious scam).

    Considering there are so many complaints filed you can imagine how much more it would cost for a company to check every individual case instead of just refunding your 500 euro's/1000 euro's.
    Last edited by Snake; 07-17-2021 at 04:47 AM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake View Post
    In a lot of companies where FTID has worked, the boxes are simply put on pallets and put on hold until the projects are put to work.
    Are you saying these companies are currently keeping FTID packages even though they may issue your refund?
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flengo View Post


    Are you saying these companies are currently keeping FTID packages even though they may issue your refund?
    It's what our company and a few big names are doing with future plans of solving the issues with the orders, revoking the refunds if necessary.
    Which if you ask me will be almost every single one of them considering they are labelled problem zones.

    One might argue a company is not allowed to revoke a refund already given (even if it be 2 years later) but they can, we've had people billed and the company threatened to go further than billing, I'm positive they would have considering the meetings also included legal contracts.

  11. #10
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    Can they put refund threads into 1 section ? I hate scrolling 5 pages of only refundings

  12. #11
    Flengo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake View Post


    It's what our company and a few big names are doing with future plans of solving the issues with the orders, revoking the refunds if necessary.
    Which if you ask me will be almost every single one of them considering they are labelled problem zones.

    One might argue a company is not allowed to revoke a refund already given (even if it be 2 years later) but they can, we've had people billed and the company threatened to go further than billing, I'm positive they would have considering the meetings also included legal contracts.
    Does that include Amazon? Kinda worried if they've been doing that too now.
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  13. #12
    Snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flengo View Post


    Does that include Amazon? Kinda worried if they've been doing that too now.
    Amazon, bol.com, coolblue, mediamarkt and one more I won’t mention but nobody knows about it anyway and for some reason superdry was in there but I believe it was the logistics chain of superdry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake View Post


    Amazon, bol.com, coolblue, mediamarkt and one more I won’t mention but nobody knows about it anyway and for some reason superdry was in there but I believe it was the logistics chain of superdry.
    Rip guess I'm fucked in 3-5 years. I'm guessing this applies to all Amazon locations and not just US/.com site.
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flengo View Post


    Rip guess I'm fucked in 3-5 years. I'm guessing this applies to all Amazon locations and not just US/.com site.
    No. They are actively finding ways to prevent returns from being diverted. BestBuy & HP have cracked down successfully. None of the companies in the US are going to go after individual customers (at worse there will be a rebill). Suggesting anything else is stupid fear mongering. (I cannot comment about other countries due to lack of knowledge regarding them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilDark View Post


    No. They are actively finding ways to prevent returns from being diverted. BestBuy & HP have cracked down successfully. None of the companies in the US are going to go after individual customers (at worse there will be a rebill). Suggesting anything else is stupid fear mongering. (I cannot comment about other countries due to lack of knowledge regarding them)
    Still very easy to do it with paypal as you can get a refund on paypal then Block the retailer (ex bestbuy) and never get rebilled im not condoning this at all just saying its still very possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake View Post


    Amazon, bol.com, coolblue, mediamarkt and one more I won’t mention but nobody knows about it anyway and for some reason superdry was in there but I believe it was the logistics chain of superdry.
    is it a mart on the wall by chance? xD

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