Muslims, how America sees them

[Cole]

Wasnt the waco incident kind of a christian terrorist?

oh yah most definitely
every religion has its radicals Christianity is not immune to that rule.
lol remember when we had puritans who believed wearing buttons could mean demons could grab onto your soul? sinners in the hands of an angry god?
but besides that every religion has its darker interpretations i think the mass of this debate is its ratio of those who follow the peaceful aspects of a religious text (in this case the quran ) compared to those who follow the war aspect, i think you guys are on point with this Muslim religion is definitely carrying more war-full areas of its texts, not to mention islam demands more devotion than other religions plus sociological pressures such as living in a third world country were your pissed the fuck off at everything would also help in liking the war aspects rather than the peace.
maybe in a distant future muslims will grow a temperament about there religious cause no matter how much people dont like them and think there religion is hate propaganda, there not going away but i think in time even the greatest of devotions will be out-lasted and will all have a new religion to be scared of together.

[unicorn69]

There are secular Muslims and then there are fundamentalist Muslims.

[robinvanpersie]

"And so he walks through his teenage years pretending to know something about religion while secretly everyone laughs at him for his stupidity."
-n00bs incarnate.

Anyway, feel free to look this stuff up on your own and always remember, keep an open mind!

Islam, Christianity and Judaism do believe in the same god. Muslims believe in Jesus (they dont believe he was the son of god but they believe in him). They also believe Abraham was a messenger of god same to what jews believe. Therefore they all believe in the same god.

That guy left because he has a life and doesnt want to debate with a person determined to hate Islam and not be willing to listen. Everyone is laughing at you Empire.

[Empire]

Islam, Christianity and Judaism do believe in the same god. Muslims believe in Jesus (they dont believe he was the son of god but they believe in him). They also believe Abraham was a messenger of god same to what jews believe. Therefore they all believe in the same god.

That guy left because he has a life and doesnt want to debate with a person determined to hate Islam and not be willing to listen. Everyone is laughing at you Empire.

Ok do i have to break it down again?(should just make a thread).

Islam judaism and christianity do not believe in the same god.

Muslims don't believe in jesus nor do they know anything about him. Believing in "god's messengers" with a Muslim twist isn't the same as believing in the same god.
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:/ You made another account just to post here? Sheesh.

[robinvanpersie]

Ok do i have to break it down again?(should just make a thread).

Islam judaism and christianity do not believe in the same god.

Muslims don't believe in jesus nor do they know anything about him. Believing in "god's messengers" with a Muslim twist isn't the same as believing in the same god.
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:/ You made another account just to post here? Sheesh.

ROFL muslims do believe in jesus he is mentioned in the Quran. Same as the prophets noah, lut that are mentioned in the Quran and bible. Most priests, imams and rabbis believe they have the same god. And my christian friends also believe it. Type in google "does Islam, christianity and Judaism have the same god" nearly everyone believes they do on yahoo answers.
I forgot my password for the other account.

[xBoredom]

Religion is crazy...

[Empire]

ROFL muslims do believe in jesus he is mentioned in the Quran. Same as the prophets noah, lut that are mentioned in the Quran and bible. Most priests, imams and rabbis believe they have the same god. And my christian friends also believe it. Type in google "does Islam, christianity and Judaism have the same god" nearly everyone believes they do on yahoo answers.
I forgot my password for the other account.

:/ So let me get this straight.


You believe in a story about jesus made 500 years after he died. 300 after christianity became popular to any major extent.

You believe that somehow god just said "oops they got it wrong" after 500 years? Does that sound the least bit logical to you?
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Then take into account what its USED for. Telling a different story about jesus has no other gain than to get converts.
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Oh i forget, yahoo answers is absolute truth! yeah you are done here i believe. All credibility lost.

[robinvanpersie]

:/ So let me get this straight.


You believe in a story about jesus made 500 years after he died. 300 after christianity became popular to any major extent.

You believe that somehow god just said "oops they got it wrong" after 500 years? Does that sound the least bit logical to you?
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Then take into account what its USED for. Telling a different story about jesus has no other gain than to get converts.
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Oh i forget, yahoo answers is absolute truth! yeah you are done here i believe. All credibility lost.

Yahoo answers shows the majority of people (either muslims, christians and athiests) believe they have the same god. I believe that god decided to send a final prophet and a book that tells you the truth about everything and to stop making people believe that jesus was god. The same stories are told about jesus except it says that he is a messenger of god not god himself. How can a person who cant read or write know about jesus's pbuh life, abraham, noah etc and the other prophets that lived hundreds or thousands of years ago? Muhammed was just passing the message from god.

[Empire]

Yahoo answers shows the majority of people (either muslims, christians and athiests) believe they have the same god. I believe that god decided to send a final prophet and a book that tells you the truth about everything and to stop making people believe that jesus was god. The same stories are told about jesus except it says that he is a messenger of god not god himself. How can a person who cant read or write know about jesus's pbuh life, abraham, noah etc and the other prophets that lived hundreds or thousands of years ago? Muhammed was just passing the message from god.

Yahoo answers lol. Yeah you are done here.

[robinvanpersie]

Yahoo answers lol. Yeah you are done here.

Is that all you can say after proving you wrong?

[Empire]

Is that all you can say after proving you wrong?

You try and used YA as a statistic for whatever stupid reason you thought that would work.
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If you want a reply:

Lets say muhammed COULD NOT read or write. Doesn't mean that he couldn't make up a story. Reading or writing really has nothing to do with the fact that this came up 500 years after jesus, and that its just as easy to make up a story even if you can't read or write.(which btw is pretty much impossible to prove if anyone can read or write unless you stalk them).

[robinvanpersie]

You try and used YA as a statistic for whatever stupid reason you thought that would work.
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If you want a reply:

Lets say muhammed COULD NOT read or write. Doesn't mean that he couldn't make up a story. Reading or writing really has nothing to do with the fact that this came up 500 years after jesus, and that its just as easy to make up a story even if you can't read or write.(which btw is pretty much impossible to prove if anyone can read or write unless you stalk them).

Lol? He was an orphan as a child and a shepherd when he grew up do you expect orphans and shepherds to read and write 1400years ago? The only way he could have known about jesus was if he read about him. Pretty hard to come up a story that is the exact same as the one told 600 years ago. Well the stories from his friends and people who knew him say that he couldnt read or write.

[vaporak10]

Lets say muhammed COULD NOT read or write. Doesn't mean that he couldn't make up a story. Reading or writing really has nothing to do with the fact that this came up 500 years after jesus, and that its just as easy to make up a story even if you can't read or write

The Qur’an’s Challenge: A Literary & Linguistic Miracle
I don't want to even try to convert anyone, but I just want to tell you, it is pretty hard for an illiterate sheperd to make the Quran.

[Empire]

Lol? He was an orphan as a child and a shepherd when he grew up do you expect orphans and shepherds to read and write 1400years ago? The only way he could have known about jesus was if he read about him. Pretty hard to come up a story that is the exact same as the one told 600 years ago. Well the stories from his friends and people who knew him say that he couldnt read or write.

Really? Its hard to come up with a story thats the exact same as the other one?

How? How in the world do you not hear yourself? Its like you say these things mindlessly without even bother to check if you were actually saying them.


Let me explain the easiest and simplest solution to all of this:

to just take the easy way out here instead of repeating myself AGAIN(for the thousandth time).

First, it is doubtful that Muhammad was illiterate. Recall that when he was being raised by his uncle, he traveled as a merchant, delivering supplies to various communities. He also traveled extensively with his first wife Khadijah, who hired him to help her with her trade business. Surely there must have been some sort of written record kept to document these transactions. The merchant trade cannot exist without written records of what and how much was shipped to whom.

Second, Muhammad’s illiteracy is irrelevant to the question of the existence of the Qur’an. Muhammad did not write the Qur’an; he recited it. Others wrote down what Muhammad recited, as the Qur’an was complied over several years. The Qur’an would have been written whether Muhammad could or could not read and write, so the argument is irrelevant.
Third, recent scholars have shown that the Arabic word ummi , translated as “illiterate,” does not mean illiterate, but rather means "one who has no book", or those who did not have a book revealed by God (sura 62:2) Thus, the Qur’an was revealed, not to an illiterate prophet, but to a prophet and people who did not have their own book revealed by God.

Sura 62:2 – It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom, - although they had been, before, in manifest error…

Fourth, the hadith includes numerous accounts of Muhammad writing.

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Once the Prophet wrote a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet got a silver ring made with "Muhammad Allah's Apostle" engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet… (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 65)

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88)

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:
Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, ""It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 114)

Thus, the claim that Muhammad was illiterate does not stand up to investigation. Moreover, it is irrelevant. Therefore, the claim that the Qur'an is Muhammad's sole miracle, and divinely inspired since an illiterate man could not have produced it, is also without merit.

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In short, him being illiterate isn't even the issue here. He recited it correct? So its basically HIS MADE UP STORY that someone wrote down, go figure.

[robinvanpersie]

It is impossible that Muhammad could have authored the Quran due to the following reasons:

First, several occasions presented themselves where he could have fabricated revelation. For example, after the first revelation came, people awaited to hear more, but the Prophet did not receive anything new for months. The Meccans began making fun of him, ‘His Lord has abandoned him!’ This continued until the 93rd chapter, Ad-Doha, was revealed. The Prophet could have compiled something and presented it as the latest revelation to end the mockery, but he did not. Also, at one point during his prophethood, some of the hypocrites accused his beloved wife Aisha of being unchaste. The Prophet could have easily fabricated something to free her of blame, but he waited for many excruciating days, all spent in pain, mockery, and anguish, until revelation came from God freeing her from the accusation.

Second, there is internal evidence within the Quran that Muhammad was not its author. Several verses criticized him, and were on occasion strongly worded. How can an imposter prophet blame himself when it may run him into the danger of losing the respect, perhaps following, of his followers? Here are some examples:

“O Prophet! Why do you prohibit [yourself from] what God has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And God is Forgiving and Merciful.” (Quran 66:1)

“…while you concealed within yourself that which God is to disclose and you feared the people, while God has more right that you fear Him..” (Quran 33:43)

“It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire.” (Quran 9:113)

“But as for he who came to you striving [for knowledge] while he fears [God], from him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [these verses] are a reminder.” (Quran 80:8-11)

If he were to hide anything, he would have hid these verses, but he recited them faithfully.

“And he [Muhammad] is not a withholder of [knowledge of] the unseen. And it [the Quran] is not the word of a devil, expelled [from the heavens]. So where are you going? It is nothing but a reminder to the worlds.” (Quran 81:24-27)

The Prophet is cautioned, perhaps warned, in the following verses:

“Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an advocate for the deceitful. And seek forgiveness of God. Indeed, God is ever Forgiving and Merciful. And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, God loves not the one who is a habitually sinful deceiver. They conceal [their evil intentions and deeds] from the people, but they cannot conceal [them] from God, and He is with them [in His knowledge] when they spend the night in such as He does not accept of speech. And God ever is encompassing of what they do,. Here you are – those who argue on their behalf in [this] worldly life – but who will argue with God for them on the Day of Resurrection, or who will [then] be their representative? And whoever does a wrong or wrongs himself but then seeks forgiveness of God will find God Forgiving and Merciful. And whoever earns [i.e., commits] a sin only earns it against himself. And God is ever Knowing and Wise. But whoever earns an offense or a sin and then blames it on an innocent [person] has taken upon himself slander and manifest sin. And if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And God has revealed to you the Book and wisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of God upon you been great.” (Quran 4:105-113)

These verses explain a situation in which a man from the Muslim inhabitants of Medina stole a piece of armor and hid it in the property of his Jewish neighbor. When the owners of the armor caught up with him he denied any wrongdoing, and the armor was discovered with the Jewish man. He, however, pointed to his Muslim neighbor, also denying his involvement in the crime. The people from the Muslim’s tribe went to the Prophet to plead on his behalf, and the Prophet began to incline towards them till the above verses were revealed clearing the Jewish man of wrongdoing. All this despite the Jew’s rejection of Muhammad’s prophethood! The verses instructed Prophet Muhammad himself not to side with the deceitful! The verses:

“…and do not be an advocate for the deceitful and seek forgiveness of God…and if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you.”

If Muhammad himself authored the Quran, thus being a lying imposter, he would have made sure that there was nothing in existence which could jeopardize the gaining of followers and supporters. The fact that the Quran, on various occasions, reprimands the Prophet in certain issues in which he had made in incorrect judgment is in itself a proof that it was not authored by him.