America is the greatest country in the world.

[Lehsyrus]

I've never said that socialism was better,i said it was more fair,stable and safer .Thats why i said that it's just a utopia,a dream-world.and claiming that "life isn't fair" is just a justification for behavior that undermines moral standards by letting the strong set standards of justice to the detriment of the weak,to say that life isn't fair is not an excuse to fleece the working man. The rich have contrived to usurp our wealth in a hundred different immoral ways. They are crooks so do not defend them by saying life isn't fair. They do things every day that common people would not do to others because it isn't right . For them it is for the interest of profit. What is fundamentally unfair is that some should gain so much by not playing fair, while others are left with so little by playing fair.So anyways,this discussion is meant to clarify what should be done, what could have been done, and what needs to be done in the future. Not to say "life's a bitch, then you die"."

socialism is better

False. You did say Socialism is better.

[maximon555]

False. You did say Socialism is better.

I contradicted myself there,but not really in that content,i mean in my point of view if socialism is fairest than capitalism doesn't that make it better?

[Empire]

I've never said that socialism was better,i said it was more fair,stable and safer .Thats why i said that it's just a utopia,a dream-world.and claiming that "life isn't fair" is just a justification for behavior that undermines moral standards by letting the strong set standards of justice to the detriment of the weak,to say that life isn't fair is not an excuse to fleece the working man. The rich have contrived to usurp our wealth in a hundred different immoral ways. They are crooks so do not defend them by saying life isn't fair. They do things every day that common people would not do to others because it isn't right . For them it is for the interest of profit. What is fundamentally unfair is that some should gain so much by not playing fair, while others are left with so little by playing fair.So anyways,this discussion is meant to clarify what should be done, what could have been done, and what needs to be done in the future. Not to say "life's a bitch, then you die"."

-.-

So let me get this straight:

Socialism is not better.
Capitalism is all those things you said right there.


And you propose socialism?
----------------------------------------------
Sorry that whole "life isn't fair" speech was total bullshit and way the fuck out of context.

When you claim capitalism isn't fair for everyone, you are an idiot:
1 Because the US isn't purely capitalistic.
2 Because "fair" isn't a part of life.
3 What you are saying is subjective. Meaning its your opinion of fair.

[maximon555]

-.-

So let me get this straight:

Socialism is not better.
Capitalism is all those things you said right there.


And you propose socialism?
----------------------------------------------

I propose it but i know is very difficult to achieve due to human greed.

Sorry that whole "life isn't fair" speech was total bullshit and way the fuck out of context.

Stop with the knee jerk reaction and engage your brain.You are smarter than this.

When you claim capitalism isn't fair for everyone, you are an idiot:
1 Because the US isn't purely capitalistic.
2 Because "fair" isn't a part of life.
3 What you are saying is subjective. Meaning its your opinion of fair.

1.True but the economic system is based on capitalism and uses the basis of capitalism to achieve economical growth,this cause appalling social injustice, wars for the control of natural resources,principally oil, and the hastening destruction of the environment.
2.Fairness is part of the theory of justice,since justice involves the fair and impartial treatment of all persons.
3.Fairness is determined by society's ethics standards, the consideration of need, compensation and sharing.

[Empire]

Justice doesn't exist. Fairness is total bullshit.
Let me explain to you "fairness".

In America*(for the sake of topic). some guy is a crook and makes a whole bunch of money off of the other guy through capitalism or some shit.

In your mind thats not "Fair"

What you are not taking into account is that the other guy can do that too. He CAN do the exact thing. Will he? Maybe so, maybe not. But he CAN, so in reality its 100% fair.
------------------------

The point is: fairness isn't about ethics. Its about equal opportunity.


Which is why life isn't fair. There is no such thing as (100%) equal opportunity.

[maximon555]

Justice doesn't exist. Fairness is total bullshit.
Let me explain to you "fairness".

In America*(for the sake of topic). some guy is a crook and makes a whole bunch of money off of the other guy through capitalism or some shit.

In your mind thats not "Fair"

What you are not taking into account is that the other guy can do that too. He CAN do the exact thing. Will he? Maybe so, maybe not. But he CAN, so in reality its 100% fair.

He can be rich too but in order to make money, first he has to take it from someone else. This can be done through selling things, taxation or any other means.But this means that the rich cannot exist without the poor.So under capitalism society you need people who do jobs that don't make as much, sometimes not even enough to live off, in order for people to get rich off their businesses and ideas through high profits (which are made in part due to lower wages than what people can live off)
Therefore the capitalism ideology that “anyone can be rich if they work hard enough” is a fallacy.

------------------------

The point is: fairness isn't about ethics. Its about equal opportunity.


Which is why life isn't fair. There is no such thing as (100%) equal opportunity.

There's no equal opportunity in a free market society because
1.The very large income disparity.This is the nature of capitalism and the free market.
2.The government's lack of action to implement social policies,this is mainly because the government will listen to big business and banks because they fund their election campaigns and they will listen to big newspaper barons because they know that they can influence public opinion.

[Empire]

Anyone CAN be rich if you work hard enough.
-Problem is that you think "work hard enough" means put more hours in. It really means are smart enough to make more money. Sorry but not everything is plain as day and you have to read between the lines.

And besides the very definition of rich is subjective in this case.

There is no (100%) equal opportunity anywhere, doesn't matter if its capitalism or socialism or communism, equal opportunity is a lie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the end you are arguing for fairness when life has never(and never will be) fair.

Deal with it.

Life Isn't Fair - Deal With It - Forbes

[maximon555]

Anyone CAN be rich if you work hard enough.
-Problem is that you think "work hard enough" means put more hours in. It really means are smart enough to make more money. Sorry but not everything is plain as day and you have to read between the lines.

And besides the very definition of rich is subjective in this case.

There is no (100%) equal opportunity anywhere, doesn't matter if its capitalism or socialism or communism, equal opportunity is a lie.

So you are saying this "Anyone CAN be rich if you work hard enough." ideology means that the work of intelligent, skilled, privileged-people,etc is very important therefore they deserve greater monetary reward?
Anyways all parts of the machine are equally important. Poor workers are very important because they do the jobs rich and intelligent people don't want to do. Every worker performs an equally important role ensuring civilization functions. Every worker should therefore receive equal pay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the end you are arguing for fairness when life has never(and never will be) fair.

Deal with it.

Life Isn't Fair - Deal With It - Forbes

I love when someone tell people who lost jobs from no fault of their own to "Stop Whining" and "If you ain't rich it's your own fault".
Maybe this is what is wrong with most of the people today;they are too busy "dealing with it" instead of being brave enough to change things.

[Empire]

So you are saying this "Anyone CAN be rich if you work hard enough." ideology means that the work of intelligent, skilled, privileged-people,etc is very important therefore they deserve greater monetary reward?
Anyways all parts of the machine are equally important. Poor workers are very important because they do the jobs rich and intelligent people don't want to do. Every worker performs an equally important role ensuring civilization functions. Every worker should therefore receive equal pay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I love when someone tell people who lost jobs from no fault of their own to "Stop Whining" and "If you ain't rich it's your own fault".
Maybe this is what is wrong with most of the people today;they are too busy "dealing with it" instead of being brave enough to change things.

Except every worker isn't equally important and some jobs require little to no training. And some jobs can do the job of another a thousand fold.
Its not fair for a custodian to receive the same amount of pay as a someone who studied and is qualified for their job through skill and training.
-Why would anyone bother being a scientist or doctor when you get paid the same amount as a janitor? Seriously, try teaching a new generation that you have to study hard and be extremely knowledgable in your subject, while jimmy over there just has to take out the trash. The reason rich people don't want to do those jobs is primarily because they don't pay well.

I think the poor worker is deffinitely important to society, but saying his work is equal to anyone else's is just bullshit. Market value of a job, learn it.

When you say everyone deserves equal pay, do you understand that is not socialism but communism?
------------

*sigh* kids these days don't wanna work or do anything and want the same pay as everyone else. Get a job first then talk, ok maximon?

Edit: Maybe then you will learn what job value is.

[maximon555]

Except every worker isn't equally important and some jobs require little to no training. And some jobs can do the job of another a thousand fold.
Its not fair for a custodian to receive the same amount of pay as a someone who studied and is qualified for their job through skill and training.
-Why would anyone bother being a scientist or doctor when you get paid the same amount as a janitor? Seriously, try teaching a new generation that you have to study hard and be extremely knowledgable in your subject, while jimmy over there just has to take out the trash. The reason rich people don't want to do those jobs is primarily because they don't pay well.

I think the poor worker is deffinitely important to society, but saying his work is equal to anyone else's is just bullshit. Market value of a job, learn it.

When you say everyone deserves equal pay, do you understand that is not socialism but communism?

As you said it "Market value of a job" the market determines the value of a job,but the Market is largely dependent on consumer demand for all sorts of products.So if the demand falls or becomes sluggish this could lead to a recession,then the employers will start laying off their workers, with a resultant increase in unemployment. This leads to a slump in retail spending as well as increased foreclosures on housing and other mortgages, leading to a slowdown in investment, and further contraction of the markets and so on, creating a vicious circle.So a free market system is highly susceptible to unemployment.

------------

*sigh* kids these days don't wanna work or do anything and want the same pay as everyone else. Get a job first then talk, ok maximon?

Edit: Maybe then you will learn what job value is.

Defamation of character is a serious tool for chumps.Assuming that I don't have a job/income was not very clever.Just because I'm criticizing capitalism doesn't mean i don't have an job/income.It's like saying that just because Mitt Romney doesn't support gay marriage he hates gays.
What i meant is that i wish that our current economic system would allow ordinary people to be empowered to make decisions about their workplaces and their communities, for the wellbeing of all.

[Empire]

Please describe your job. Your free to leave out details, but in the most earnest sense: Please explain what you do for a living.

I'm not going to attack your job, or what you do. You can even make up a job or career that you are studyingg forward to.
--------------------

[maximon555]

Please describe your job. Your free to leave out details, but in the most earnest sense: Please explain what you do for a living.

I'm not going to attack your job, or what you do. You can even make up a job or career that you are studyingg forward to.
--------------------

I work at my Father's computer shop.

[S|W|P]

This is just a thread with dumb americans and badass eu guys trying to fight the dumbness of the americans

[Lehsyrus]

This is just a thread with dumb americans and badass eu guys trying to fight the dumbness of the americans

"Dumbness"......

Classifying Americans as a whole is wrong. I've come to realize that the Americans people hate are based mostly in the North. Those are te misinformed, government loving mediocre scum that blindly defend the country. (NOTE: this is a generalization from experience, not hard statistical factual information). The people I have met and talked to in te south are much more tolerant on others opinions, still love America but can not stand the government and are quite vocal on each individuals reasoning behind it.

Tl:dr= it seems as though the North either blindly protects the government and hates on the country itself, whereas the south use their own experiences to base their love for the country but hate on the government.

As I said, this is speculation and just a generalization from my own experiences.

[S|W|P]

"Dumbness"......

Classifying Americans as a whole is wrong. I've come to realize that the Americans people hate are based mostly in the North. Those are te misinformed, government loving mediocre scum that blindly defend the country. (NOTE: this is a generalization from experience, not hard statistical factual information). The people I have met and talked to in te south are much more tolerant on others opinions, still love America but can not stand the government and are quite vocal on each individuals reasoning behind it.

Tl:dr= it seems as though the North either blindly protects the government and hates on the country itself, whereas the south use their own experiences to base their love for the country but hate on the government.

As I said, this is speculation and just a generalization from my own experiences.

That doesn't count for me I hate every government