[Manga] Naruto 640 + Discussion

[scotbud123]

:/ I feel sasuke shows that more than naruto.

Naruto wins most of his fights thanks to his lack of willpower to supress the kyubi, his determination is "meh" considering his options.

Sasuke shows more willpower to be an emo ******.

What do you mean Naruto doesn't show any willpower? Did you not see the 12 Ninja Gaurdian arc where he fucking stuck a Kunai THROUGH his leg to suppress to Kyubi? Sasuke never had to fucking deal with a demon fox in him, Naruto did. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't last 3 seconds with the Kyubi in you.

Sasuke has always done whatever he wants to in the spur of the moment, he's the epitome of A.D.D. He has close to 0 willpower. The only thing he ever stuck to in the show was killing Itachi, and WOOPS, turns out he was a fucking good guy.

[Empire]

Sasuke shows more willpower to be an emo ******.

What do you mean Naruto doesn't show any willpower? Did you not see the 12 Ninja Gaurdian arc where he fucking stuck a Kunai THROUGH his leg to suppress to Kyubi? Sasuke never had to fucking deal with a demon fox in him, Naruto did. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't last 3 seconds with the Kyubi in you.

Sasuke has always done whatever he wants to in the spur of the moment, he's the epitome of A.D.D. He has close to 0 willpower. The only thing he ever stuck to in the show was killing Itachi, and WOOPS, turns out he was a fucking good guy.

This is probably a barrier from maturity.


I see it as whoever gets shit done, is the one more serious about the issue. Talk is cheap, actions prove how much willpower you actually have. Sasuke has taken the initiative more times than naruto (which is odd considering how emo he was) in doing all his objectives. He went to Orochimaru, he killed itachi, he killed danzo.
-Heck, almost all of Naruto's actions are reactionary in nature. "I'll fight Pein, because he did this recently. I'll fight midara because he did this recently."
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No, I skip filler. I saw the twelve ninja guardians plot and decided to skip it since well....it sucked.
-The same demon fox who wins all of naruto's battles? Oh poor kid.
-Has the demon fox ever done anything but say "I'll lend you my power"? I mean he rarely if ever tries to take over, even then its always a win-win since naruto wins because of that. He never hinders naruto during fights really, he doesn't even fuck with him outside of it.

The demon fox isn't a curse, its a blessing. If konoha wasn't full of idiots, they'd use the "tool of destruction" they claim the tailed beast are and train him properly.


Also curse mark>demon fox.
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Sasuke knew he wasn't going to get stronger staying with naruto. (I mean ffs 70+ episodes after he left all naruto did were errands)


:/ Sasuke has enough willpower/determination to get him to his goals. I mean from day one he was on about killing Itachi. Yet naruto from day one was on about being hokage, but hasn't exactly done anything specifically for that.
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If i took sasuke's accomplishments to naruto's, you could easily see naruto's were just a bi-product of another person's actions.

[scotbud123]

This is probably a barrier from maturity.


I see it as whoever gets shit done, is the one more serious about the issue. Talk is cheap, actions prove how much willpower you actually have. Sasuke has taken the initiative more times than naruto (which is odd considering how emo he was) in doing all his objectives. He went to Orochimaru, he killed itachi, he killed danzo.
-Heck, almost all of Naruto's actions are reactionary in nature. "I'll fight Pein, because he did this recently. I'll fight midara because he did this recently."
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No, I skip filler. I saw the twelve ninja guardians plot and decided to skip it since well....it sucked.
-The same demon fox who wins all of naruto's battles? Oh poor kid.
-Has the demon fox ever done anything but say "I'll lend you my power"? I mean he rarely if ever tries to take over, even then its always a win-win since naruto wins because of that. He never hinders naruto during fights really, he doesn't even fuck with him outside of it.

The demon fox isn't a curse, its a blessing. If konoha wasn't full of idiots, they'd use the "tool of destruction" they claim the tailed beast are and train him properly.


Also curse mark>demon fox.
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Sasuke knew he wasn't going to get stronger staying with naruto. (I mean ffs 70+ episodes after he left all naruto did were errands)


:/ Sasuke has enough willpower/determination to get him to his goals. I mean from day one he was on about killing Itachi. Yet naruto from day one was on about being hokage, but hasn't exactly done anything specifically for that.
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If i took sasuke's accomplishments to naruto's, you could easily see naruto's were just a bi-product of another person's actions.

You're trying to compare earning people's respect and a ranking in the village to taking somebodies life. One is a lot easier to do than the other. Killing someone is one thing, having to EARN people's respect and become the leader of an entire village of people, having all of those people entrust EVERYTHING to you, is FAR more difficult than killing someone. Plus, if Naruto completed his goal, the show would have to end. He's the main character, Sasuke isn't.

Going to Orochimaru is no different than what you said about Naruto. It was reactionary, he just did it because Orochi NOT ONLY gave him the curse mark, but also sent his sound 4 cocksucks to beat the shit out of him so (like the little bitch he his) would go crawling to him for power. Killing Itachi was something that he wanted, and he did do it, like I said, too bad Itachi was a good guy. And killing Danzo doesn't really count for anything other than dumb emo ****** shit. His brother laid EVERYTHING he had down for the village, he took on EVERYBODY'S hatred, killed his entire clan, and became a missing-nin, and died; all for the sake of the village. And what does Sasuke think is a good course of action to take after finding all of this out? Trying to destroy the very thing his brother gave EVERYTHING to protect. Real display of willpower, the will to be a cocksucker that is.

Speaking of that curse mark, how is that even remotely comparable to the fox? The curse mark gave him controllable power, it was NOT another entity that wanted to destroy everything, it DIDN'T have a mind of it's own. Not to mention most people didn't even KNOW Sasuke had it, and those who did tried to help him with it rather than outcast him for having a fucking demon in him. You're brain dead if you think having to deal with the curse mark was anywhere close to having to deal with the fox.

The 12 Ninja Guardian arc was awesome, it gave Asuma time to shine and kick total ass before his death. It also gave him time to develop as a character. The idea was inspired by Kishi, so it's semi-canon anyways. But then again, this IS you we're talking about, I wouldn't expect you to like it. Oh, and since you're not going to take what happened in this arc as an example since it's "filler", don't contradict yourself by bringing up those 70+ episodes of filler (in the manga he just left with Jiraiya to become stronger after his fight with Sasuke, so he CAN do something about it). Especially when those fillers weren't inspired by Kishi.

I still can't wrap my head around why you think Sasuke has even an ounce of will. Think about Naruto and Sasuke in the DC universe, which one would be a Green Lantern? Come on now.

Sasuke would probably be a red lantern, maybe yellow.

[Empire]

Eh.....not really comparing killing to gaining respect in any way there. I'm just saying that naruto never does anything directly related to becoming the hokage, while sasuke set his goals out, completed them, and then moved on to the next goal.


:/
1. As much as you hate sasuke, you do realize naruto is gay for him right? I mean there is hundreds of poses with them face to face in the show(not in a seeing eye-to-eye manor either), his entire quest was for sasuke, and dear god does he moan about him so much. I mean "Sasuke..." has been said in shippuden at least ten thousand times.
2. Oh the big bad demon fox? The same one that....wait...wanted to destroy everything? Since when? Its clear he was only "misunderstood" this whole time now, so its also clear he was just helping out naruto every single time. I mean wow, "demon" really doesn't suit the thing.
3. Curse mark>fox. Why? Because its not an auto-win button.
4. Filler?Sorry, it is just god awful every time. Bad animation, bad story, bad characters who are introduced then removed never to be seen again. You liked it? Good for you.
5. Lanterns? Idk, yellow is fear so I guess? Red is rage =/= sasuke. Being an anti hero he wouldn't be able to be green.

:/

[[MPGH]Hero]

They are hyping sasuke up a lot. The Fourth hokage acknowledges him as 'naruto is keeping up with sasuke-kun' as if sasuke is in some way superior, As well as how sasuke first reaction to Obito losing control and hurting him self was "hes hitting him self" with a dull almost sad look on his face as if he wanted to fight.

Sasuke > Naruto, it's gon ahappen.

Sasuke will never be better than Naruto. Naruto is way stronger than Sasuke - by far.


--

I liked this chapter a lot. God damn. So much shit going down. I just didn't like the Rin part. He remembers Rin and boom - he can control the Juubi. :/ But that's just my preference. No doubt Obito is the strongest character right now. It's hard to predict what's going to happen next.

[Empire]

Sasuke will never be better than Naruto. Naruto is way stronger than Sasuke - by far.


--

I liked this chapter a lot. God damn. So much shit going down. I just didn't like the Rin part. He remembers Rin and boom - he can control the Juubi. :/ But that's just my preference. No doubt Obito is the strongest character right now. It's hard to predict what's going to happen next.

I don't think naruto has ever actually been stronger than sasuke in the entire series.......

[scotbud123]

I don't think naruto has ever actually been stronger than sasuke in the entire series.......

It's official, you're on the most powerful drugs this world has to offer.

Ever since Naruto got KCM, he's been leaps and bounds ahead of Sasuke. There's one simple reason for this really, even is Sasuke's eyes can catch anything, his body is too slow. Naruto can move at the speed of light, he would destroy Sasuke in his current state right now. The only thing Sasuke would kind of have going for him is the Susano'o, none of his other abilities would work. He's too fast for Amaterasu, he knows how to not look into his eyes for Tsukuyomi (plus he now has the fox to break him out of anything like that), he can't use Izanami or Izanagi, and forget anything Chidori related. The only thing that might have a chance out of his non-Sharingan abilities is Kirin, IF he can re-create the circumstances for that to be possible again.

I mean, look at what Bee did to him with just like a 4 tail cloak or whatever. If he couldn't keep up with that there's no way he can keep up with Naruto. Sasuke was only stronger at the very beginning of the show, and MAYBE at the beginning of Shippuden. That's about it. He DEFINITELY stands zero chance now.

[bustersbss]

Eh.....not really comparing killing to gaining respect in any way there. I'm just saying that naruto never does anything directly related to becoming the hokage, while sasuke set his goals out, completed them, and then moved on to the next goal.


:/
1. As much as you hate sasuke, you do realize naruto is gay for him right? I mean there is hundreds of poses with them face to face in the show(not in a seeing eye-to-eye manor either), his entire quest was for sasuke, and dear god does he moan about him so much. I mean "Sasuke..." has been said in shippuden at least ten thousand times.
2. Oh the big bad demon fox? The same one that....wait...wanted to destroy everything? Since when? Its clear he was only "misunderstood" this whole time now, so its also clear he was just helping out naruto every single time. I mean wow, "demon" really doesn't suit the thing.
3. Curse mark>fox. Why? Because its not an auto-win button.
4. Filler?Sorry, it is just god awful every time. Bad animation, bad story, bad characters who are introduced then removed never to be seen again. You liked it? Good for you.
5. Lanterns? Idk, yellow is fear so I guess? Red is rage =/= sasuke. Being an anti hero he wouldn't be able to be green.

:/

You use the phrasing "directly related" as if achieving Hokage is as simple as taking a test or applying for it. The title of Hokage is itself achieved in an indirect manner.

[Empire]

It's official, you're on the most powerful drugs this world has to offer.

Ever since Naruto got KCM, he's been leaps and bounds ahead of Sasuke. There's one simple reason for this really, even is Sasuke's eyes can catch anything, his body is too slow. Naruto can move at the speed of light, he would destroy Sasuke in his current state right now. The only thing Sasuke would kind of have going for him is the Susano'o, none of his other abilities would work. He's too fast for Amaterasu, he knows how to not look into his eyes for Tsukuyomi (plus he now has the fox to break him out of anything like that), he can't use Izanami or Izanagi, and forget anything Chidori related. The only thing that might have a chance out of his non-Sharingan abilities is Kirin, IF he can re-create the circumstances for that to be possible again.

I mean, look at what Bee did to him with just like a 4 tail cloak or whatever. If he couldn't keep up with that there's no way he can keep up with Naruto. Sasuke was only stronger at the very beginning of the show, and MAYBE at the beginning of Shippuden. That's about it. He DEFINITELY stands zero chance now.

:/

Thats a misunderstanding of basic physics scot. Naruto isn't at some godlike speed, and if he is its only a straight dash so far. He doesn't have his father's ability or skill, and to be honest going very fast for naruto isn't exactly an advantage.(because it only gives the counterattack that much more power). Naruto's strategy has always been clones + straight attacks, i mean really, pretty much any character could beat naruto if they had a simple strategy or any planning at all.
-In other words, always taking the right step is a far more useful ability than taking a step at twice the speed, at least in the naruto universe, where everyone is an idiot and doesn't realize basic human limitations and use restraints against that. oh well.

You use the phrasing "directly related" as if achieving Hokage is as simple as taking a test or applying for it. The title of Hokage is itself achieved in an indirect manner.

True, but naruto has been saying "i'm going to become the hokage" since the start of the show, with no real actions related to such things(no advancement of position, which was kind of the whole thing of the genin exam, except he's still low rank, although ranks are useless in ship to be fair).

:/ whichmeans hokage as the goal of naruto is pretty stupid. I mean if its so indirect upon gaining it, it makes him saying it almost pointless. "I'm going to become hokage!!!" ok naruto, how? "I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do to become hokage!"

It was said some time ago that the hokage are the "strongest" in the village.
-Clearly the case for the first 4, but Tsundae kind of kills that saying.

[scotbud123]

You use the phrasing "directly related" as if achieving Hokage is as simple as taking a test or applying for it. The title of Hokage is itself achieved in an indirect manner.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say.

:/

Thats a misunderstanding of basic physics scot. Naruto isn't at some godlike speed, and if he is its only a straight dash so far. He doesn't have his father's ability or skill, and to be honest going very fast for naruto isn't exactly an advantage.(because it only gives the counterattack that much more power). Naruto's strategy has always been clones + straight attacks, i mean really, pretty much any character could beat naruto if they had a simple strategy or any planning at all.
-In other words, always taking the right step is a far more useful ability than taking a step at twice the speed, at least in the naruto universe, where everyone is an idiot and doesn't realize basic human limitations and use restraints against that. oh well.



True, but naruto has been saying "i'm going to become the hokage" since the start of the show, with no real actions related to such things(no advancement of position, which was kind of the whole thing of the genin exam, except he's still low rank, although ranks are useless in ship to be fair).

:/ whichmeans hokage as the goal of naruto is pretty stupid. I mean if its so indirect upon gaining it, it makes him saying it almost pointless. "I'm going to become hokage!!!" ok naruto, how? "I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do to become hokage!"

It was said some time ago that the hokage are the "strongest" in the village.
-Clearly the case for the first 4, but Tsundae kind of kills that saying.

No, maybe you missed it or something, they actually said he moves "at the speed of light". Sasuke could just never keep up. But it's clear you're just bagging on Naruto now for the sake of just bagging on him. "pretty much any character could beat naruto if they had a simple strategy or any planning at all", not at all, you're underestimating him by a LOOOOOOONG SHOT...but I guess that's the point.

And Tsunade was one of the strongest in the village around her time, you're yet again underestimating her. The only people who were stronger were Jiraiya (who refused and did not WANT the title), and Danzo who nobody trusted. (Refer back to what I said earlier, and why Naruto's goal is not so cut and dry). Kakashi is on even levels NOW, but back then he wasn't, he didn't even have his Mangekyo, and he also would not have even wanted the title. Maybe Guy too, but he's a dumb ass, and his power takes a lot from him (even his life if he opens all 8). Tsunade was the strongest of the people who AGREED to do it, that was also trustworthy and not an idiot. She's still VERY strong, you shouldn't underestimate her.

[Empire]

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say.




No, maybe you missed it or something, they actually said he moves "at the speed of light". Sasuke could just never keep up. But it's clear you're just bagging on Naruto now for the sake of just bagging on him. "pretty much any character could beat naruto if they had a simple strategy or any planning at all", not at all, you're underestimating him by a LOOOOOOONG SHOT...but I guess that's the point.

And Tsunade was one of the strongest in the village around her time, you're yet again underestimating her. The only people who were stronger were Jiraiya (who refused and did not WANT the title), and Danzo who nobody trusted. (Refer back to what I said earlier, and why Naruto's goal is not so cut and dry). Kakashi is on even levels NOW, but back then he wasn't, he didn't even have his Mangekyo, and he also would not have even wanted the title. Maybe Guy too, but he's a dumb ass, and his power takes a lot from him (even his life if he opens all 8). Tsunade was the strongest of the people who AGREED to do it, that was also trustworthy and not an idiot. She's still VERY strong, you shouldn't underestimate her.

First off, scot stop being such a fanboy. "haters gonna hate"? Really man? Just because I think naruto would lose, I'm a hater? Look, naruto in a 1v1 fighting sense is probably one of the weaker characters in the show.(among the legit people now), he constantly needs to be set up for his rasengan by other people, his attacks are entirely straightforward, and if we are going on "no main character win" rules, then yeah, he isn't exactly the best.
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Ok lets just talk about naruto's new "speed"
1. Naruto hasn't mastered it at all.(not even a little bit).
2. Sasuke can read movements with the sharingan, derp.
3. As stated before, speed without control is only a hindrance. In case you don't know physics, its basically: the faster you move the less another person has to. A normal punch at that speed would punch a whole through naruto(and probably destroy the guys arm).
4. This isn't dbz where people teleport around with instantaneous transmission all the time.
5. "like" he was moving at the speed of light.


Tsundae has been entirely useless in the show outside of "fanservice", but the appeal of a mature leader for hokage is the selection process in a nutshell. Thats why they nominated Kakashi and Danzo. Naruto is nowhere near mature enough to manage the hokage position, I can tell you that.

[scotbud123]

Ok lets just talk about naruto's new "speed"
1. Naruto hasn't mastered it at all.(not even a little bit).
2. Sasuke can read movements with the sharingan, derp.
3. As stated before, speed without control is only a hindrance. In case you don't know physics, its basically: the faster you move the less another person has to. A normal punch at that speed would punch a whole through naruto(and probably destroy the guys arm).
4. This isn't dbz where people teleport around with instantaneous transmission all the time.
5. "like" he was moving at the speed of light.


Tsundae has been entirely useless in the show outside of "fanservice", but the appeal of a mature leader for hokage is the selection process in a nutshell. Thats why they nominated Kakashi and Danzo. Naruto is nowhere near mature enough to manage the hokage position, I can tell you that.

1. He kind of has, ever since he got Bijuu mode (where Kurama and him are working together), he has. Not sure if you paid attention during the beginning of the Tobi fight.
2. Thanks, derp, I already said that he will be able to see everything clear as day, too bad his body won't be able to re-act NEARLY fast enough. Look at what happened to him when Bee was in like, the 4 tail cloak, now imagine Naruto with full Bijuu mode. No chance.
3. Refer to number once, he controls it quite well, I mean look at what he did to get Tobi's mask off and everything that happened before that.
4. In short distances, he would be as fast as Goku with instant transmission. The only thing Goku has over him is long distances since he has no limit on how far he can go (even cross-planets). Goku would be able to straight up MOVE faster than him though, but by the time an instant transmission transmission goes though, (assuming it's a SHORT distance) Naruto would move just as fast. Goku could of course just MOVE faster, but that's not the point anyways. This is Sasuke vs Naruto, not Naruto vs Goku.
5. Not, moving at THE speed of light.

Tsunade is obviously fan service, but now you're just being reductive if you think she can't be that and more. In terms of PURE strength, she's the strongest character in the show. Not to mention her insane healing abilities. Like I said, except for the people who didn't WANT to be Hokage, couldn't because they're too stupid, or couldn't because they're untrustworthy, she was the strongest candidate. (Not to mention having insane healing is a good ability for the leader of a village to have).

[Empire]

1. He kind of has, ever since he got Bijuu mode (where Kurama and him are working together), he has. Not sure if you paid attention during the beginning of the Tobi fight.
2. Thanks, derp, I already said that he will be able to see everything clear as day, too bad his body won't be able to re-act NEARLY fast enough. Look at what happened to him when Bee was in like, the 4 tail cloak, now imagine Naruto with full Bijuu mode. No chance.
3. Refer to number once, he controls it quite well, I mean look at what he did to get Tobi's mask off and everything that happened before that.
4. In short distances, he would be as fast as Goku with instant transmission. The only thing Goku has over him is long distances since he has no limit on how far he can go (even cross-planets). Goku would be able to straight up MOVE faster than him though, but by the time an instant transmission transmission goes though, (assuming it's a SHORT distance) Naruto would move just as fast. Goku could of course just MOVE faster, but that's not the point anyways. This is Sasuke vs Naruto, not Naruto vs Goku.
5. Not, moving at THE speed of light.

Tsunade is obviously fan service, but now you're just being reductive if you think she can't be that and more. In terms of PURE strength, she's the strongest character in the show. Not to mention her insane healing abilities. Like I said, except for the people who didn't WANT to be Hokage, couldn't because they're too stupid, or couldn't because they're untrustworthy, she was the strongest candidate. (Not to mention having insane healing is a good ability for the leader of a village to have).

I was going to respond in a whole 1-5 listed, and I had the entire thing out until(1-3) I read 4 where you compared naruto's movement to goku, especially the IT.

Then I just stopped an realized you were a delusional fanboy and actually scolded myself for arguing with you instead of doing something worth-wile .
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Nah, forget that. I'm done here.

[scotbud123]

I never compared it to Goku's speed, I said he would simply out-speed Naruto with ease. But by the time he thinks of where he wants to go, in a short distance, Naruto could simply move faster than IT (in a SHORT distance). IT is far better because it has no distance limit and can go anywhere Goku remembers and can visualize. Never said it was better. Never said Naruto was anywhere near Goku's speed.

I also said this isn't about Goku vs Naruto, it's about Sasuke vs Naruto. Where, at this point in the series, Sasuke would lose.

[Empire]

I never compared it to Goku's speed, I said he would simply out-speed Naruto with ease. But by the time he thinks of where he wants to go, in a short distance, Naruto could simply move faster than IT (in a SHORT distance). IT is far better because it has no distance limit and can go anywhere Goku remembers and can visualize. Never said it was better. Never said Naruto was anywhere near Goku's speed.

I also said this isn't about Goku vs Naruto, it's about Sasuke vs Naruto. Where, at this point in the series, Sasuke would lose.

:/ You are severely overblowing naruto's speed among many other things.

Why bother arguing if you don't even watch/read the series? I mean clearly naruto doesn't move that fast in the show or manga, he couldn't even pass the raikage, let alone move at some godlike speed vs obito, an actual opponent.

Oh well, fanboys will be fanboys.