What would happen if the Kaäba was destroyed?

[Frought]

I did go out of subject but I'm just trying to prove my point.

Well, I think it's about the title of the thread.

Even at night, we can see the Milky Way. It is indeed artisticly rendered, but, it's all counted and precisely measured, therefor, it's not a drawing, and it is actually rather accurate. Imagine sitting in a pan and seeing your scrambled eggs, you wouldn't know the top view, but you definitely know what's at the sideviews. Much rather said, enough to statistically create a rendering.

I said it's not fully accurate.. And I actually know that..

Perhaps not you, but look up miracles of Allah on youtube and you'll find 10000 pictures of the word 'Allah' on an object, being praised as a miracle.

Don't give a fuck to them then? The only thing I believe it's right the Mars thingy.

The rift line is not a piece of the moon cut off and later rejoined, it's simply a rift line as earth has rift valleys, lol. The fact that the prophet cut the moon, for me, is already enough to say no to a religion. I mean c'mon man..

Well.. Get your arguments right. He didn't cut the moon or anything. It's just that the god said (before any science proved it) in the Qur'an :

"The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]. And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic." And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement. (Qur'an: Surat Al-Qamar (54:1-3))"

But let me proceed to ask you; who says it's a God? Who says it's not Aliens? Who says it's not the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
What you can prove of the Existence of a God, is as proveable as an Aliens theory and as realistic as the Flying Spaghetti Monster theorie.

We don't know who is him. We actually know it's God and it's not even a name... It means the Creator and Allah means Creator as well. He has 99 names. If you wanna know them I'm gonna tell you that.

So why does Allah not protect his Mosques? Why does he not protect his people?

Mosques aren't him it's just a place where you go to pray and to mention prayers at the moment of prophet was in his house lonely so mosques isn't that "god place" the only god's protection out there is one as far as I know which is Al Ka'aba as he stated by himself "The holy house of Allah" and that was your question which I answered, it will never get destroyed until the judgement day? His people, all humans are his people not only Muslims?

That one sentence, 'how cant their god protect their statue', is very on-topic. If the Kaäba, Allahs home, were to be destroyed, then I would have the right to say the same thing to you right now.

You know when will people stop believing in Islam? When 2 things happens:
1) Destroying Al Ka'aba -> will never happen as it is protected by god
2) Distorting Qur'an -> will never happen as well as it is protected by god.

It didn't happen yet, but I'm imagining nothing would protect it, except for human efforts, I mean c'mon..

Then why wasn't it destroyed yet? Even Saudi Arabia joined many wars..

It started with abiogenesis, and continued from the utter small cells to the world we live in today.
That, to me, sounds alot more logical than 'a God popped his fingers and we all, including this expanding universe, were created'. Does it not to you too?

What was the universe or the "nothing" was before abiogenesis ?
And no that doesn't sound more logical. Just because the question of "What was the universe or the "nothing" was before abiogenesis ?" makes it non-logical.

We have seen evolution, we see it every day, look at the chickens you eat, look at the penguïns, look at the bears, they've all evolved to fit in their climate and region. Evolution will not stop till the day all life is stopped. First of all, a human being will never move at the speed of light, secondly, if that were to happen, time might stop, but that doesn't mean your organs would stop functioning, doesn't mean you could no longer think, doesn't mean you could no longer breathe in the area you're in, doesn't mean you can no longer see, right?
That's enough reason for evolution to continue occuring.

You actually got me wrong, I meant it's a concept we created to define something, didn't mean it doesn't exist lol.

Actually, it will.. If we were to live a VERY long time with very loud noise, every day, then I'm quite sure the human body would soon find a way to make sure the loud noises become less harmful.

Thanks for proving my point easily. Evolution stops and you think it's the creator is like god dies and you think he's the creator(that's why there is no secret behind that). Even if you don't think that there is no God, then what's the point of the life if evolution is going to stop and there is no thing to do anymore?

Have to agree with you here to disagree, arabs were doing very well scientific wise, they're the reason we're so far today, but, might they have made even better discoveries without a religion? I don't know.

That's because Arabs went in wars, and just like European Dark Era or whatever it is called I don't actually remember its name lol.

It was Omar who advised Abu Bakr to compile the Qu'ran into a book, because over 300 memorizers died in the battles.
Note the word memorizers, referred to as huffaz, they memorised the Qu'ran, they didn't write it down.

Yes you're right that there was some memorizers died. but You're not right in "they didn't write it down", If you read more about Arabs lives before even Islam appeared, they're curving things on materials (any possible materials) like cutting trees and etc..

Shia's believe they are muslims as much as the Sunni's do, what gives the Sunni's the right to acquire the name Muslim and what takes that right away for the Shia's?

Wait a minute. This is a big story. Shiaa's became very long after Sunna's (There wasn't even anything called Sunna's except after Shiaa's appearance)
You can read it in many books or research's (not sure about wikipedia)

However there is an evidence they're not Muslims. Here it is:

"On the authority of Abu Najeeh al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:
The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) gave us a sermon by which our hearts were filled with fear and tears came to our eyes. So we said, “O Messenger of Allah! It is as though this is a farewell sermon, so counsel us.” He (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “I counsel you to have taqwa (fear) of Allah, and to listen and obey [your leader], even if a slave were to become your ameer. Verily he among you who lives long will see great controversy, so you must keep to my Sunnah and to the Sunnah of the Khulafa ar-Rashideen (the rightly guided caliphs), those who guide to the right way. Cling to it stubbornly [literally: with your molar teeth]. Beware of newly invented matters [in the religion], for verily every bidah (innovation) is misguidance.”
[Abu Dawud]
It was related by at-Tirmidhi, who said that it was a good and sound hadeeth."

Quoted from here https://sunnah.com/nawawi40/28

This is a Hadith by the Prophet. That clearly means Shiaa's are wrong. Sunna's mean following prohpet's sunna.

It is, but lots of muslims these days even believe in dinosaurs as it's a basic thing in Western schools. I don't get that part.

I don't understand what you're talking about?

I indeed think hell is evil. Just because one doesn't believe in the religion does not mean he should suffer an endless horror for the rest of his existence. I stand by the saying that there are only two kinds of people on this planet, the good and bad. Should the good suffer just like the bad, simply because they don't believe in Allah?

No, it's endless, at least not for most people. (Hell is not endless but people will not be endless in hell at least, most of people). Many scholars say people who disobeyed Allah will stay at hell for the period they did in it.

Here is what that proves that people will not stay at Hell forever:

And [mention, O Muhammad], the Day when He will gather them together [and say], "O company of jinn, you have [misled] many of mankind." And their allies among mankind will say, "Our Lord, some of us made use of others, and we have [now] reached our term, which you appointed for us." He will say, "The Fire is your residence, wherein you will abide eternally, except for what Allah wills. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing." (6:128)

In which they will remain for ages [unending].(78:23)

Also I think this is really pretty amazing (And that's why I think that way) : "And they urge you to hasten the punishment. But Allah will never fail in His promise. And indeed, a day with your Lord is like a thousand years of those which you count."

You see how time goes? If you had to argue like that before science or anything that proves that time may become slower or faster you would have become an Atheist on prophet's era..


Well, let me tell you your problem. Your problem is, you deal with god like if he was an evil human or just a human like anyone who says bullshit. That's the problem. Just before you deal like that remember that Allah is the greatest the most merciful the most adjuster and many more that describes him.

I stand by the saying that there are only two kinds of people on this planet, the good and bad. Should the good suffer just like the bad, simply because they don't believe in Allah?

Do you even know that good guys that "believe" in Allah may go to hell as well? And I'm a Muslim and I may go to hell? Goods may suffer as well but less than the bad ones. And it's not only that you don't believe in god that makes you in heaven, it's that how you treat people, your family and do you give poor people money to eat or not and what do you do on your life?

At the end.. All will be punished on what they did, and Allah will decide. He will forgive for everyone at the end after being punished and go to heaven.

A good world with no evil and no bad guys would mean that there would be no such sadistic plays as the hell. Imagine a God being able to do such a thing! What kind of a God must he be?

The human brain.. Would still complain about his freedom.

I would much rather have an evil-less planet to live on and be assured a safe death, than being tested and having eternal pain and suffer for eternity.

Then the world will not end?

That's the thing, there are so few of these, and most of them were influenced by their religious friends. I know a Christian who became a muslim after hanging out with muslim people for a very long time. As soon as he started hanging with atheists, his thoughts quickly changed.
Guess what though? The fear of death for leaving the religion is what keeps him a muslim. Do you think that's fair, or a true belief? I don't. I think it's a sadistic game.

No, not all people like your friends.

I think, if you have to force someone to stay in the religion, then the religion is doing no good, rather harm.

Islam never forced anyone to convert. Please, when you're talking about religion state which one.

I'll post this and increase the font afterwards, give me an instant @Frought

Thanks for doing this, it harms my eye xD

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@Frought , leave the kid with himself, don't waste your time lol, lets do the night prayer xD

No, that's the point of the debate buddy. I just like to clear out everything about Islam xD.

Why is it that these dumbasses deserve heaven?

Just don't insult them xD

They deserve heaven, whilst I would immediatly be sent to hell if it were for the Gods decision. No matter how much good I'd do, I would be sent to hell

That's another problem. You think every Muslim is going to be in heaven instantly.. Everyone will be punished by god.. No one will run away. We will be in heaven because of his mercy not because of our things because if we'd just weigh what god gave us and what we gave him, it will be nothing even if you prayed to him all day all night till you die!

[ActionTurnip]

Right now, you're not sounding any better than the ISIS militants who say all disbelievers should die. It wouldn't be a satisfaction to see the Kaäba fall, it would be a lesson, it would be something to study, to see how the muslims would react and what the effects would be.

Mind to say, it would be nice to know whether it is protected by their God or not.
Islam, back in the days, was one of the most advanced religions, they had answers to things we only found out recently. Saying a certain religion holds all the dumb people in the world is as redicuul as I were to say all humans stink.

@Frought I failed to increase my previous' post size, since it won't let me edit, but I've adjusted it in general now.

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I must admit these texts are as huge as could be. Never happened before, lol.
I know they're kiddo photoshoppers, but who admire those pictures?
Right!

If the Kaaba being destroyed is what it takes for @WarWood to get his head out of his ass, then so be it. It just astounds me how far you are willing to go to "prove" what is false. Islam is not superior to anything. Islam is just as unbelievable as any other religion, with NO EVIDENCE. I just don't understand why you think you can argue with evidence. I didn't mean to say all idiots come from Islam, not at all, but if you want to believe in your lie don't compare it to the truth. There shouldn't even be an argument in this thread.

[WarWood]

If the Kaaba being destroyed is what it takes for @WarWood to get his head out of his ass, then so be it. It just astounds me how far you are willing to go to "prove" what is false. Islam is not superior to anything. Islam is just as unbelievable as any other religion, with NO EVIDENCE. I just don't understand why you think you can argue with evidence. I didn't mean to say all idiots come from Islam, not at all, but if you want to believe in your lie don't compare it to the truth. There shouldn't even be an argument in this thread.

Tell me Brother, what's the truth?

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@Snake , see this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9O5lQqZsd5g

Btw, give me a list of all questions that if I was capable of answering, you will repent and return to Islam,I'll try to answer all the questions.

Note: I'm a 17yr old guy who practises Islam and knows well, my source of infomration are from worldwide known Scholars.
And thanks for staying friendly throught this debate, you one of the calmest human beings I've ever seen!

[Snake]

@Frought

So you do, indeed, believe that the moon was split in two?

I know Allah has 99 names, don't forget I was a very believing muslim myself, I've read the Quran multiple times, but that doesn't change the fact that our existence through aliens or any other superior creature is as much to be believed as to be the creation by a God.

There simply is no true proof, nor is there any true 'anti-proof'. A Quran is not sufficiënt to confirm a Godlike existence. I could make a book and name it the source of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and name a few things her and der, it'd be the same as the Islamic religion, there would be no solid proof.

The destruction of the Ka'aba, in my opinion, is very well possible, infact, I'm quite sure the building has had some deterioration aswell, probably needed some restauration here and der too, if that's the case, then why should it be indestructible?

The Qur'an is being distorted so often, simply because translating Arabic verses into English or Dutch or German or whatever language you'd like, is not possible. Words translated from Arabic will always be misinterpreted by the rest of the world, which in my eyes, is sufficient to change the meanings of verses her and der(which is what my teacher said).

If this is the case, how do non-Arabic speaking muslims take on the right Quran?

I'm quickly skipping to the last part of what you said, namely:

Well, let me tell you your problem. Your problem is, you deal with god like if he was an evil human or just a human like anyone who says bullshit. That's the problem. Just before you deal like that remember that Allah is the greatest the most merciful the most adjuster and many more that describes him.

I don't deal with God like he's an evil human, I deal with him as a way too human-sourced creature. Hell is painful, great, lets put that as a punishment.
Good is heavenly, great! Lets say God is in the heaven, bad is in the ground, lets put the Sjaytaan there.

I gave you an absurd example, but it all links back to the human-mind, if you get me?

I know the Islam. A muslim rapist in the worst case, still has privileged rights over an atheïst in any case. Even if the atheïst were to be the most friendliest, warm-hearted, generous person alive, the muslim rapist would still be privileged. Why? Because the muslim believes in Allah, and therefor can be forgiven.

The atheïst instead, is doomed to go to hell, even though he's lived a much more respectable life than the bad example given above.
Do you think that's fair? I absolutely don't.

Muslims can go to hell too, ofcourse, but we all know they get interrogated, they get their shoulders weighted for their sins and good deeds, and proceedingly get their punishment after saying the Sha'hada.

What do atheïsts get? Nothing, lol, they go straight to hell because they haven't witnessed the existence of a God, and at the end of an atheïst life, it's already too late. Can't die, see the light, and go like 'oh no, I do believe in Allah after all, can I go to heaven'.

I don't know in what peaceful and hopeful world you live, but not everyone gets to go to heaven. That's the whole point, it is a sadistic game.

Child abusers, rapists, mass murderers could end up in heaven because they believe in Allah before peaceful and respectful non-believers!

That, in my eyes, is totally absurd.
I'm not saying the religion is bad or anything, I've been a muslim, I know what muslims are, I'm just saying that the truth, in my eyes, is that the Islam is not just, and Allah is not there.

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@WarWood

The truth is, we're here to die and rot. We're not here to live and simply live again, that's rediculous!

I saw the video you linked, remember my friend, I do not think the Islam is a promoter of violence, I agree with the muslim debater, very powerful. I simply think Allah is non-existant.

I don't have any questions for you, nor about the Islam, if I did I wouldn't have converted to atheïsm yet. Thank you for the offer, though.

Ofcourse, elementary respect for all human beings and being open-minded in debates is what allows us to learn.
I have to say, I did learn quite some things out of this debate. Very helpful, thanks!

[Color]

Tbh I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

[Snake]

Tbh I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Ikr?!

I'm quite sure, however, that the ka'äba has had to deal with some serious deterioration but them higher ups are probably just trying to hide all that.

[Frought]

So you do, indeed, believe that the moon was split in two?

I don't know, but the NASA picture makes me believe that. However, go ask NASA as they are experts.

I know Allah has 99 names, don't forget I was a very believing muslim myself, I've read the Quran multiple times, but that doesn't change the fact that our existence through aliens or any other superior creature is as much to be believed as to be the creation by a God.

Ok so you're trying to say an alien "inside" the "universe" "created" "us"? Shouldn't that alien who have created the universe?

There simply is no true proof, nor is there any true 'anti-proof'. A Quran is not sufficiënt to confirm a Godlike existence. I could make a book and name it the source of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and name a few things her and der, it'd be the same as the Islamic religion, there would be no solid proof.

Yeah, go ahead. You will never have such skill to write it. And it will contain many mistakes, and lies.

The destruction of the Ka'aba, in my opinion, is very well possible, infact, I'm quite sure the building has had some deterioration aswell, probably needed some restauration here and der too, if that's the case, then why should it be indestructible?

As a building, it can be destroyed. But meaning of "protected by god" doesn't mean it's is indestructible but It means it is protected by any other possible way.

The Qur'an is being distorted so often, simply because translating Arabic verses into English or Dutch or German or whatever language you'd like, is not possible. Words translated from Arabic will always be misinterpreted by the rest of the world, which in my eyes, is sufficient to change the meanings of verses her and der(which is what my teacher said).

No, there are Arabic translators who speaks English very very well who translated it. And even distorting translation isn't even called distortion as long as you have the original one unlike Christianity and Jewish. And even more, translating has no relation to distorting.

If this is the case, how do non-Arabic speaking muslims take on the right Quran?

There is many translations, not only one. And the translators are not like me and you at English.... xD

I don't deal with God like he's an evil human, I deal with him as a way too human-sourced creature. Hell is painful, great, lets put that as a punishment.
Good is heavenly, great! Lets say God is in the heaven, bad is in the ground, lets put the Sjaytaan there.

God isn't in the heaven, don't say "lets say". And I don't even know where is hell (might be mentioned in qur'an). What Sjaytaan mean? You mean devil?

I gave you an absurd example, but it all links back to the human-mind, if you get me?

As long as I don't know what Sjaytaan means, I don't understand you.

I know the Islam. A muslim rapist in the worst case, still has privileged rights over an atheïst in any case. Even if the atheïst were to be the most friendliest, warm-hearted, generous person alive, the muslim rapist would still be privileged. Why? Because the muslim believes in Allah, and therefor can be forgiven.

Why do you say that? That's fully wrong. Have any evidence?

The atheïst instead, is doomed to go to hell, even though he's lived a much more respectable life than the bad example given above.
Do you think that's fair? I absolutely don't.

Since you skipped the part that this point was mentioned in, have you read it? I said everyone is going to be punished no matter he is Muslim or Atheist or what. Everyone will be treated equally.

Muslims can go to hell too, ofcourse, but we all know they get interrogated, they get their shoulders weighted for their sins and good deeds, and proceedingly get their punishment after saying the Sha'hada.

What do atheïsts get? Nothing, lol, they go straight to hell because they haven't witnessed the existence of a God, and at the end of an atheïst life, it's already too late. Can't die, see the light, and go like 'oh no, I do believe in Allah after all, can I go to heaven'.

Alright, what's your problem? Are you against Hell because you wanna do what you want and excuse your behaviors with "God isn't real" so you can make your conscience ignore all bad things you did? Or you just don't believe in God because you don't? That's really a big different story. Again, I explained everything in the part you skipped and I explained at the end after some time, all will be in heaven that's because Allah is merciful.

I don't know in what peaceful and hopeful world you live, but not everyone gets to go to heaven. That's the whole point, it is a sadistic game.

Again, read the part you skipped, it tells that everyone is going to heaven after some time.

Child abusers, rapists, mass murderers could end up in heaven because they believe in Allah before peaceful and respectful non-believers!

They'll be punished maybe more than atheists will get and that's up to Allah... And you will end up in heaven after some time of the punishment... so what's your point again?

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Tbh I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

And will not. LAWL

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Since this thread turned into believing/not in god and qur'an. Let me post something useful.

Here is what Qur'an helped in creating sciences (many things but not all of it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCvyOYMzqM

Here is some explanation of Islam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgaZSJQ9CIs

Also watch the full playlist if you wanna know more things useful. However the first few parts of the playlist only translated.

[kakadz]

@Frought stop fucking quoting everyo single person who replied to this thread.

[Jew]

What you're talking about isn't even related to evolution..

the point im trying to make is that god didnt make your skin darker, its nature at its works. and it did this for thousands of years

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This is true. What Muslims scholars did made the history race and go faster than religion. That needs to be fixed by going up with the religion not going down with the history.

at least we agree on something,that islam should stop mankind - part of that process is not forcing primite laws relevant back when mohammed was alive like the shariah laws,because no modern country will kill someone by stoning him to death.

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1) Destroying Al Ka'aba -> will never happen as it is protected by god
2) Distorting Qur'an -> will never happen as well as it is protected by god.

bull shit

nothing is protected by a "god" if modern physics doesnt say so. unless there is a thin layer of unbreakable material around that stone (which there isnt,its a fucking stone) it can be destroyed with ease - the reason noone has done it because it would cause innormous outrage, look muslims killed like 3 artists because they drew their prophet

additionally the quran changed many times because its written from human memories of the story that their parents told them

[Frought]

the point im trying to make is that god didnt make your skin darker, its nature at its works. and it did this for thousands of years

lol god created first man and woman, they married and they started to get new babies, then some people etc.. until that happened.. No thing logical? Just like a white chicken and a yellow one.

at least we agree on something,that islam should stop mankind - part of that process is not forcing primite laws relevant back when mohammed was alive like the shariah laws,because no modern country will kill someone by stoning him to death.

I don't know about that really but what I know is religion should be on the race of history.

bull shit

nothing is protected by a "god" if modern physics doesnt say so. unless there is a thin layer of unbreakable material around that stone (which there isnt,its a fucking stone) it can be destroyed with ease - the reason noone has done it because it would cause innormous outrage, look muslims killed like 3 artists because they drew their prophet

How is that related to Physics? lol, do you even know what means god protection? You're talking like if it was a monster protecting his house..

additionally the quran changed many times because its written from human memories of the story that their parents told them

It was first written on materials and some of it was memeorized. It haven't changed.

@Frought stop fucking quoting everyo single person who replied to this thread.

What the fuck is wrong with you ass hole? I didn't fucking quote you what is your problem motherfucking ******? You and Lightining on my dick. I'm done of you bitches, you keep talking in the same subject where I said many times you fucking dick that this is how debating goes you mother fucker.
@Lightining Here is your ****** boy.

[kakadz]

What the fuck is wrong with you ass hole? I didn't fucking quote you what is your problem motherfucking ******? You and Lightining on my dick. I'm done of you bitches, you keep talking in the same subject where I said many times you fucking dick that this is how debating goes you mother fucker.

ROFL dat rage though.

[Jew]

What the fuck is wrong with you ass hole? I didn't fucking quote you what is your problem motherfucking ******? You and Lightining on my dick. I'm done of you bitches, you keep talking in the same subject where I said many times you fucking dick that this is how debating goes you mother fucker.
@Lightin ing Here is your ****** boy

ROFL dat rage though.

i think he sinned

[kakadz]

i think he sinned

Can't wait to see this kid banned, i'll kiss @Eternity if this happens NO HOMO

[Mokou-Sama]

ill tell you what will happen to me. I wont give a shit.

You got that right, neither will I.

[WarWood]

@Snake I'll just have my few probably final words here xD, I'm sorry i bugged you with videos but this is probably the last: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpknMMyxyE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aszXCD2dPeE

This is one of the most know scholars called Dr. Zakir Naik , I think these are enough lol

Ah and back to the topic, the Kabaa will be destroyed sooner or later, this is a sign of the day of resurrection.

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@kakadz and you simply spwaned here lol, hey welcome