Report for Copperhorse [BIAS/UNPROFESSIONAL]

[Copperhorse]

FedEx called him multiple times before he got the replacement. I have the most experience on the site for refunding Apple now that Fujiyama no longer does it. I didn't purchase a method from anybody. I'm not posting on this thread anymore because I'm talking to an ignorant brick wall who thinks he knows what he's talking about. Adios!

[Cadized]

FedEx called him multiple times before he got the replacement. I have the most experience on the site for refunding Apple now that Fujiyama no longer does it. I didn't purchase a method from anybody. I'm not posting on this thread anymore because I'm talking to an ignorant brick wall who thinks he knows what he's talking about. Adios!

See ya later rofl. Like any company, Best Buy, apple, google, if they call you regarding more details on the package, or your claim they will cancel it if you don't reply as confirmed by APPLE themselves. Once again, Mr.Genius apple knows better than you at these investigations, I'm sorry to break it to you, don't want to ruin your ego.

Heres Copperhorse: Staff who disrespects members, acts unprofessional,biased. To sum it up, this is Mr.Copperhorse to you boys.

[[MPGH]Dave84311]

Can someone TLDR this?

[Black]

Can someone TLDR this?

Some dude paid OP for a refund, OP was made to refund the dude despite successful refund (or maybe the buyer got his money back before the refund went through?) and now the OP wants the amount owed for doing his service.

[[MPGH]Dave84311]

and now the OP wants the amount owed for doing his service.

yeah... I don't see that happening unless whoever paid him gives it back

in any case if he is CopperPony is doing something unprofessional @Liz can take a look at this thread and decide what to do

[itzsheng]

yeah... I don't see that happening unless whoever paid him gives it back

in any case if he is CopperPony is doing something unprofessional @Liz can take a look at this thread and decide what to do

I don't think @Copperhorse was doing it unprofessional due to experience however there may have been a different approach to it but it's not really accurate to see who is correct as I have ran into cases where I have not answered Apple's calls multiple times NOT fedex/UPS and still got a refund. However there are cases where it fails as @Cadized and @Wyo said.

Every case is on a different basis and @Cadized speaking to Apple chat can't really prove anything because no employee in their right mind would say "Yeah we'll refund you if you answer the phone and won't refund you because you didn't answer." On the scam report, the call was one call and email 10 minutes later of denied refund. If they needed more information, it would take more than 1 call wouldn't it?

Plus on another note, most people pay refunders for the service because they wouldn't need to talk to Apple/Whoever in the case themselves otherwise whats the point of the service? They need more information and the guy paying the service, what does he/she know what to say? If he/she doesn't know what to say and the refund fails, whose fault is that?

[Cadized]

yeah... I don't see that happening unless whoever paid him gives it back

in any case if he is CopperPony is doing something unprofessional @Liz can take a look at this thread and decide what to do

The whole point of this thread is because Copperhorse threaten to ban me with insufficient evidence and then despite also proving him wrong he proceeded to threaten with the ban. Ofc I had to refund the guy, and then make this, what more can I do against someone who abuses his privileges.
@Liz take a look at ur staff please

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I don't think @Copperhorse was doing it unprofessional due to experience however there may have been a different approach to it but it's not really accurate to see who is correct as I have ran into cases where I have not answered Apple's calls multiple times NOT fedex/UPS and still got a refund. However there are cases where it fails as @Cadized and @Wyo said.

Every case is on a different basis and @Cadized speaking to Apple chat can't really prove anything because no employee in their right mind would say "Yeah we'll refund you if you answer the phone and won't refund you because you didn't answer." On the scam report, the call was one call and email 10 minutes later of denied refund. If they needed more information, it would take more than 1 call wouldn't it?

Plus on another note, most people pay refunders for the service because they wouldn't need to talk to Apple/Whoever in the case themselves otherwise whats the point of the service? They need more information and the guy paying the service, what does he/she know what to say? If he/she doesn't know what to say and the refund fails, whose fault is that?

This isn't about if you know what to say or not, the guy did not pick up the phone. It simple, he sabotaged the refund.

You are correct that both cases happen. However, when the rep does not note down the information I gave her, such as box condition, what happened and just says the item is missing, UPS/FEDEX will have to call to find out what happened, otherwise they think its a "not delivered item", and not refund because it was signed for, and not providing any information to them doesn't help it in anyway.
Once again, lol, its not for the money, its mainly for Copperhorse constant privilege abuse, acting unprofessional, and bias. I mean the guy didn't even look at the proof I gave him and went on straight to threaten with ban consistently. Lmao, then this so called 'staff' gets triggered and starts disrespecting me, top level MPGH MP staff. Since I agree there is no "proof" in both Side of the cases, I should of been able to keep atleast 50% of the money, even though despite the fact that when we called apple, they said we didn't pickup the phone and the kid went on to talk about how his phone was on do not disturb and he didn't see it. Clearly at this point its his fault, and not a problem on my end.


For @Liz, look at the scam dispute. The guy didn't look for a possible better solution when I showed him proof, and just kept saying "24 hours" ,etc. Since there was no proof on OP's end, I don't understand how you can threaten me with a ban. Also, in most cases where a refunder is not at fault, they get to keep the money. This guy just stood with the OP's side because I am a competitor and he makes me want look bad in order to gain business for himself, selfish little guy.

[Copperhorse]

Some dude paid OP for a refund, OP was made to refund the dude despite successful refund (or maybe the buyer got his money back before the refund went through?) and now the OP wants the amount owed for doing his service.

Your TLDR is inaccurate, the refund OP made was not successful.

yeah... I don't see that happening unless whoever paid him gives it back

in any case if he is CopperPony is doing something unprofessional @Liz can take a look at this thread and decide what to do

The refund failed. OP wants to keep the money the victim paid him because the guy didn't answer a phone call which is not needed for a successful refund to be completed. OP argues it is required to answer the phone call for a successful refund and thinks I'm out to get him because I'm a competitor of OP (who doesn't even run an Apple shop at the time of the report). I've been doing Apple refunds for years. Not going to let this kid take a customers money for a failed refund. When you fail somebody's refund you tell them to return it and refund them their money, not try to scam them.

[Cadized]

Your TLDR is inaccurate, the refund OP made was not successful.



The refund failed. OP wants to keep the money the victim paid him because the guy didn't answer a phone call which is not needed for a successful refund to be completed. OP argues it is required to answer the phone call for a successful refund and thinks I'm out to get him because I'm a competitor of OP (who doesn't even run an Apple shop at the time of the report). I've been doing Apple refunds for years. Not going to let this kid take a customers money for a failed refund. When you fail somebody's refund you tell them to return it and refund them their money, not try to scam them.

Again this guy says its not required to pickup the phone, despite the fact that he's been proven wrong from multiple people, including apple, and other competitors. Its sad to see what competition does to Copperhorse.

[[MPGH]Liz]

Your TLDR is inaccurate, the refund OP made was not successful.



The refund failed. OP wants to keep the money the victim paid him because the guy didn't answer a phone call which is not needed for a successful refund to be completed. OP argues it is required to answer the phone call for a successful refund and thinks I'm out to get him because I'm a competitor of OP (who doesn't even run an Apple shop at the time of the report). I've been doing Apple refunds for years. Not going to let this kid take a customers money for a failed refund. When you fail somebody's refund you tell them to return it and refund them their money, not try to scam them.

While I understand that you have some experience and methods of handling this type of 'service', I would argue that as long as Cadized is forthright with his 'customers' and they follow his instructions, he is free to be paid for his services. This is also the case even if the 'customer' mucks it up by not following the instructions. Whether you agree with them or not, that's just the way it must be handled. I disagree with all of this, and see it as nothing but fraud, yet I only enforce the policies set forward by the site, without my own experience or morality getting in the way.

As long as @Cadized makes it clear that any potential customer must follow his instructions to the letter and any deviation from this can cause the service to fail, there's no grounds for a refund or scam accusation if the 'customer' by his own actions caused the service to fail. However if this was not the case at the time the transaction took place, the refund is valid, and I will ask Cadized that he make an amendment to his terms of service stipulating that his instructions must be followed in order to have a satisfactory resolution. This is one of the reasons I disliked granting MM to current participants in the marketplace, they could be accused of biases if they also have a competitive service. In future, analyze whether your actions could be misconstrued as biased, and take preemptive actions to avoid those accusations, either by asking another MM to handle that particular issue, or by making absolutely sure the person is violating site policy.

[Copperhorse]

While I understand that you have some experience and methods of handling this type of 'service', I would argue that as long as Cadized is forthright with his 'customers' and they follow his instructions, he is free to be paid for his services. This is also the case even if the 'customer' mucks it up by not following the instructions. Whether you agree with them or not, that's just the way it must be handled. I disagree with all of this, and see it as nothing but fraud, yet I only enforce the policies set forward by the site, without my own experience or morality getting in the way.

As long as @Cadized makes it clear that any potential customer must follow his instructions to the letter and any deviation from this can cause the service to fail, there's no grounds for a refund or scam accusation if the 'customer' by his own actions caused the service to fail. However if this was not the case at the time the transaction took place, the refund is valid, and I will ask Cadized that he make an amendment to his terms of service stipulating that his instructions must be followed in order to have a satisfactory resolution. This is one of the reasons I disliked granting MM to current participants in the marketplace, they could be accused of biases if they also have a competitive service. In future, analyze whether your actions could be misconstrued as biased, and take preemptive actions to avoid those accusations, either by asking another MM to handle that particular issue, or by making absolutely sure the person is violating site policy.

I would like to see his terms of service. If he says something along the lines of "I'm not responsible if you screw up your own refund" then what I've said stands. The customer didn't screw up the refund by not answering the call. If it said something along the lines of "You must answer phone calls" that's a different issue. I can't see it since the thread is deleted. If you think that I was wrong in making him refund his customer I'll refund Cadized what was paid to him by the customer. The phone call he missed was 10 minutes prior to an email from Apple saying the refund had been denied. It was a phone call by Apple, not FedEx. FedEx will contact you directly if they need more information from you, not through Apple. It was just a courtesy call as to what steps the customer can take to resolve it outside of Apple (Police report, Call bank). I know for a fact that was what they were going to tell the customer, a useless call. I've had a few customers in my years experience it, just the luck of the draw. The only difference is if I were to take their money prior to attempting the refund (I make them pay after), I would refund them and tell them to return it. Not let it get to the point where they open a scam report on me. He failed the refund and tried to blame his customer. If I wasn't confident in my 2+ years of experience in this service I would've contacted another marketplace member for advice, but it was not needed as I knew it was a meaningless phone call. Also, apparently his last 4 refunds for Apple failed and he shut down his shop. Unless all 4 of those customers didn't answer a call the only common denominator I see is the refunder. It's your call, if you think I was wrong in forcing him to refund his customer I'll pay him but I'm highly confident in my decision.

[Cadized]

I would like to see his terms of service. If he says something along the lines of "I'm not responsible if you screw up your own refund" then what I've said stands. The customer didn't screw up the refund by not answering the call. If it said something along the lines of "You must answer phone calls" that's a different issue. I can't see it since the thread is deleted. If you think that I was wrong in making him refund his customer I'll refund Cadized what was paid to him by the customer. The phone call he missed was 10 minutes prior to an email from Apple saying the refund had been denied. It was a phone call by Apple, not FedEx. FedEx will contact you directly if they need more information from you, not through Apple. It was just a courtesy call as to what steps the customer can take to resolve it outside of Apple (Police report, Call bank). I know for a fact that was what they were going to tell the customer, a useless call. I've had a few customers in my years experience it, just the luck of the draw. The only difference is if I were to take their money prior to attempting the refund (I make them pay after), I would refund them and tell them to return it. Not let it get to the point where they open a scam report on me. He failed the refund and tried to blame his customer. If I wasn't confident in my 2+ years of experience in this service I would've contacted another marketplace member for advice, but it was not needed as I knew it was a meaningless phone call. It's your call, if you think I was wrong in forcing him to refund his customer I'll pay him but I'm highly confident in my decision.

Again, your assumptions are nothing in this case. Your 'assumption' plus '2 years of refunding' is not worth nor relevant to my time and money. As far as we are concerned, theres no proof to back up your point. The only proof is that when we called apple, with OP, the apple representative said that he did not pick up the phone. Thats all, he said nothing else.

Its very hard and challenging to fail an apple refund, 2 years of experience is not needed to be successful. Empty box + no damages/tempering and no pre signature is all you have to know, nothing else. I don't need your money brother, and I don't want to chargeback the OP, but hopefully we can avoid this in the future if it was ever to happen again. As for the terms of service, it's common sense; if OP does something to sabotage the refund, how shall I be responsible for that? That makes no sense.

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While I understand that you have some experience and methods of handling this type of 'service', I would argue that as long as Cadized is forthright with his 'customers' and they follow his instructions, he is free to be paid for his services. This is also the case even if the 'customer' mucks it up by not following the instructions. Whether you agree with them or not, that's just the way it must be handled. I disagree with all of this, and see it as nothing but fraud, yet I only enforce the policies set forward by the site, without my own experience or morality getting in the way.

As long as @Cadized makes it clear that any potential customer must follow his instructions to the letter and any deviation from this can cause the service to fail, there's no grounds for a refund or scam accusation if the 'customer' by his own actions caused the service to fail. However if this was not the case at the time the transaction took place, the refund is valid, and I will ask Cadized that he make an amendment to his terms of service stipulating that his instructions must be followed in order to have a satisfactory resolution. This is one of the reasons I disliked granting MM to current participants in the marketplace, they could be accused of biases if they also have a competitive service. In future, analyze whether your actions could be misconstrued as biased, and take preemptive actions to avoid those accusations, either by asking another MM to handle that particular issue, or by making absolutely sure the person is violating site policy.

You have good points but I directly did not tell OP to "answer his phone" as usually that rarely happens and I don't mention that to everybody until they actually call, so I guess thats my only mistake which I could improve on next time. However, its common sense, when someone Is calling; they are calling you for a reason. Op had his phone on do not disturb and did not bother to pick up. When we called apple, they said he did not pick up the phone, and then this guy started justifying why he couldn't pick it up. If they said something else, such as investigation team has denied the request, then I agree that would 100% be my problem. However, clearly, when called they said you did not pick up the phone when called. That phone call could of been very important, such as Box inspection date. For cases like these, they do not email when they want to inspect the box, but there could be virtually any other case for their call.

As for your MM granting thing, if I could suggest something, I would highly suggest that someone else who is not a competitor deal with "scam reports" done against other competitors in the future, that way it wouldn't be any bias at all.

[Copperhorse]

Again, your assumptions are nothing in this case. Your 'assumption' plus '2 years of refunding' is not worth nor relevant to my time and money. As far as we are concerned, theres no proof to back up your point. The only proof is that when we called apple, with OP, the apple representative said that he did not pick up the phone. Thats all, he said nothing else.

Its very hard and challenging to fail an apple refund, 2 years of experience is not needed to be successful. Empty box + no damages/tempering and no pre signature is all you have to know, nothing else. I don't need your money brother, and I don't want to chargeback the OP, but hopefully we can avoid this in the future if it was ever to happen again. As for the terms of service, it's common sense; if OP does something to sabotage the refund, how shall I be responsible for that? That makes no sense.

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You have good points but I directly did not tell OP to "answer his phone" as usually that rarely happens and I don't mention that to everybody until they actually call, so I guess thats my only mistake which I could improve on next time. However, its common sense, when someone Is calling; they are calling you for a reason. Op had his phone on do not disturb and did not bother to pick up. When we called apple, they said he did not pick up the phone, and then this guy started justifying why he couldn't pick it up. If they said something else, such as investigation team has denied the request, then I agree that would 100% be my problem. However, clearly, when called they said you did not pick up the phone when called. That phone call could of been very important, such as Box inspection date. For cases like these, they do not email when they want to inspect the box, but there could be virtually any other case for their call.

As for your MM granting thing, if I could suggest something, I would highly suggest that someone else who is not a competitor deal with "scam reports" done against other competitors in the future, that way it wouldn't be any bias at all.

They're not assumptions. They're facts. I don't base my decisions off assumptions, only facts. What I know about Apple refunding are facts. Them giving courtesy calls when a refund fails is a fact. FedEx contacting you directly and not through Apple is a fact. You trying to blame your customer for a refund you failed is a fact. Your whole competitor argument is null and void. You closed your shop before the scam report was even created (Another fact).

[Cadized]

They're not assumptions. They're facts. I don't base my decisions off assumptions, only facts. What I know about Apple refunding are facts. Them giving courtesy calls when a refund fails is a fact. FedEx contacting you directly and not through Apple is a fact. You trying to blame your customer for a refund you failed is a fact. Your whole competitor argument is null and void. You closed your shop before the scam report was even created (Another fact).

Wow dude you're a fucking god. You can now predict and read what calls are saying without them actually saying anything. I am truly impressed by your ability to keep up with bullshit for days now. As confirmed by Wyo (who had more experience than you), that both cases happen, but your case is wrong since when we called Apple they said you have not picked up the telephone. Thus, your case is not correct at this refund situation. Also, my competitor argument is very much valid. You been trying to ban me for months now, suggesting rules to be changed in order to ban my alts when I was temp banned lmfao. Again, what competition has done to you is very sad. And finally to prove you wrong once more, the thread was closed after the dispute or few hours before refunding the guy. Nice try once more with your bullshit and straight up lies.
@Liz please come to a final conclusion. I strongly believe Copperhorse should pay for this as he made me and forced me to refund without justifying his reasons at all. When called apple, they said op did not pickup the telephone and which is why they denied the refund. I also showed what apple has to say to this case, and they clearly said if you don't answer the phone while investigation, you will not be refunded. In addition, separate discussion, this guy got mad I am proving him wrong and started to harass me which is totally not a professional thing to do my any staff at any means. I Haven't disrespected this guy once and had to keep up with his bullshit and lies all this thread and his scam report, so I think I deserve the position more.

[Copperhorse]

I think I deserve the position more.

How many scam reports have you had opened on you in the past 6 months? Maybe if you knew how to be a half decent seller on MPGH it wouldn't get to this point.