All christians, please try and answer this.

[Maddoc]

>_< Geez, if the big theory is 100% real/true it would be a law. Tadaaa.

They only can guess at the most. It might be an educated guess, but a guess all the same.

But no one else has proven that god exists. Ok, I'll admit, there might be a god, but thats all belief, which is really the strongest proof anyone needs.

My example to my point: The army. If they didnt believe in their cause, they'd shit themselves and hide in a bunker in someplace. Science proves that there isn't a god, but only to a point. There is a god, because he was made by people's belief in him. If no one believed in god, then he wouldn't still be remembered, and he wouldn't be "almighty". So, in reality, the argument over if there is a god or not will ultimately only end when either:

A) Everyone in the world stops believing in some higher power/god.
B) God reveals himself to his believers in a way that can be proven.
C) The human race goes extinct.

I bet no one here can say they haven't believed in something before. Belief is their argument, and it's the strongest one so far. Science can only prove so much.

[Kuro Tenshi]

I'm sorry to say... But you are a complete failure.

that's what u say but me carez i like listening to metal, more like anti hardcore... for real whutz that. besides you got enough christian metal bands no this aint a lie (only i they don't play that awesome music cauze its all about god and stuff or at least not asome that i like.).

u shall like anime >:|

[Paroxysm]

>_< Geez, if the big theory is 100% real/true it would be a law. Tadaaa.

They only can guess at the most. It might be an educated guess, but a guess all the same.

You're conflating laws of nature with acts of nature. The Big Bang can't be condensed into a nice little formula, it's a culmination of observations that converge on a specific explanation. Colloquially the Big Bang is a fact, scientifically it's a theory, this isn't due to a limitation of science but a change in cultural dialect, society is too disconnected from science and that's a problem. The meaning of a word in a scientific sense are often mistake for their colloquial counterpart.

[Empire]

You're conflating laws of nature with acts of nature. The Big Bang can't be condensed into a nice little formula, it's a culmination of observations that converge on a specific explanation. Colloquially the Big Bang is a fact, scientifically it's a theory, this isn't due to a limitation of science but a change in cultural dialect, society is too disconnected from science and that's a problem. The meaning of a word in a scientific sense are often mistake for their colloquial counterpart.

Paroxysm, you do know that this is the internet. Speaking "big" words that basically stand for smaller words, isn't needed. Especially when 90% of the people here are 16-

Its not really a problem that society is disconnected from science. If it was, its probably due to the fact that the people who recieve "higher" education tend to act smug. If God doesn't exist to them, i really do see why they do that, because they don't want to admit that they haven't enjoyed their life.

[Sir Nathan]

Hahahaha seen this quote so many times in my philosophy class. I usually don't get involved in this poems/quotes which criticize God's existance, or any other religions, like buddhism, hinduism, jewish, etc. but nao in mpgh I feel like doing an exception. Here's my thoughts about this quote:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is willing to prevent evil, but why will he prevent evil if we make it ourselves? God is full of forgiveness, but not to the extreme. If we make so much chaos, why should God move a finger to save its own creation from an inminent doom which is being provoced by themselves?
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
God has got the power to do it. Period. If he created the whole universe, then he can stop evil. But you must remember, without chaos, there cannot be peace. Without darkness, there cannot be light, and without evil, what would be "good"?
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
I'd say he's able, very capable, and he is willing to save us from destruction as long as we accept him as our God, and we actually do something to save us. We can't expect God to save us all, even the ones who don't even approach to believe in him.
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God
He is both able and willing. If not, why would many people believe in him? I've always thought "why, if no one has ever seen, talked or even got a clear idea of how does he look/speak/act/any action, why do they believe in him?" It's a thing called faith.

Our current societies are based in religion. Religion is our base. If you believe in God or not, it depends on how you judge reality based on seeing/touching, instead of just believing. This is some phrase that always brings me good memories that shows me that God exists:

Though our feelings come and go, God's love for us does not.

[Paroxysm]

Its not really a problem that society is disconnected from science. If it was, its probably due to the fact that the people who recieve "higher" education tend to act smug. If God doesn't exist to them, i really do see why they do that, because they don't want to admit that they haven't enjoyed their life.

If there is any smugness in the educated population it's because of the perpetual ignorance that our society it promoting. If you meet any specialist, in any field, they will be the very first people to admit that they don't know. A PhD is basically a certificate of ignorance, because once your research enters into the realm of the unknown, only then do you realize just how little you know. The God question is an important one because the effects of the superstitious, credulous and ignorant masses permeate all aspects of society, if it's not God, they believe in homeopathy, if it's not homeopathy it's ufology, if it's not ufology it's moon-landing denial, if it's not moon-landing denial it's some other unsupported or irrational claim. This problem is much bigger than just a single irrational belief, it's because these beliefs open the flood gates for other nonsensical beliefs. Ultimately these things cause great amounts of harm to our society.

[Empire]

Really paroxysm, have you never heard ignorance is bliss? That saying has more truth in it than you might realize.

Don't know what? About the existence of God? What the answer is to a problem? Not enough context.

Actually Paroxysm they don't. If you followed the bible 100% I can't really see how it would be harmful donating to society in community help projects your whole life. Look you seem to have talked to some people in the science field. Next time you ask them how many hours they help out in the community a week

[Maddoc]

Paroxysm, science has done more damage to earth and people than people who believe in god (other thatn those damn suicide bombers). The scientists are the ones who have killed people by sending up space ships and all that shit. They're the ones who are causing global warming and all that crap.

The "believers" of god have done nthing but pray to their god. They haven't sent up space ships, made heavy duty group-fuck polluting cars. The scientists are smart, yes, but they might think they have proved god isn't real, but they've actually proved that he IS real, because the Christian society hasn't been diminished to a small society of people; they're are so many people who believe in god, and they're belief is what has made their god real. I don't care what evidence you say about there being no god, 3 billion people know there is (in their hearts) (rofl), because their god is made up of belief.

[Paroxysm]

Actually Paroxysm they don't. If you followed the bible 100% I can't really see how it would be harmful donating to society in community help projects your whole life. Look you seem to have talked to some people in the science field. Next time you ask them how many hours they help out in the community a week

Are you insane? Look at the countless wars justifiable by religious ideology, look at the Salem witch trials, look at Shariah Law in the middle east, look at the "Christian-Scientists" killing children with diabetes, look at the dark ages, look at the inquisition and don't even get me started on sectarian violence. Religious belief doesn't harm anyone my ass. Religion is divisive. Regarding the community service, what the hell does that have to do with this? You can keep bringing this up every time a conversation gets long winded about an issue you deem unimportant. How about this Empire, you go help at a soup kitchen instead of bitching on the internet how people don't help the poor. If you have nothing of value to say then stop talking. Scientists are out there trying to find cures for cancers, perfect medical procedures, doing research on biological agents that can eat through half the human race in the hopes of creating vaccines and cures. Scientists are out there trying to find other sources of energy so that Americans can keep up their bloated lethargic lifestyles. Your ignorance pisses me off to no end.

Paroxysm, science has done more damage to earth and people than people who believe in god (other thatn those damn suicide bombers). The scientists are the ones who have killed people by sending up space ships and all that shit. They're the ones who are causing global warming and all that crap.

The "believers" of god have done nthing but pray to their god. They haven't sent up space ships, made heavy duty group-fuck polluting cars. The scientists are smart, yes, but they might think they have proved god isn't real, but they've actually proved that he IS real, because the Christian society hasn't been diminished to a small society of people; they're are so many people who believe in god, and they're belief is what has made their god real. I don't care what evidence you say about there being no god, 3 billion people know there is (in their hearts) (rofl), because their god is made up of belief.

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this train-wreck of an argument. "Spaceships and all that shit", wtf are you talking about? I assume someone on here is going to cite the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so here's a short history lesson for your ignorant asses.

"According to most estimates, the immediate effects of the blast killed approximately 70,000 people in Hiroshima.[39] Estimates of total deaths by the end of 1945 from burns, radiation and related disease, the effects of which were aggravated by lack of medical resources, range from 90,000 to 140,000. Some estimates state up to 200,000 had died by 1950"

200,000 is an unimaginable loss of life, now lets imagine the alternative:

"Operation Downfall was the overall Allied plan for the invasion of Japan near the end of World War II. The operation was cancelled when Japan surrendered after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet Union's declaration of war against Japan...
Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties."

So in the end the "evil scientists" actually ended up mitigating the lose of life. Learn your shit before you even start arguing. Global climate change is an issue not caused by scientists but uncontrolled industrial monopolies. The scientists are the ones trying to revert the damages the human race has done to the planet, but it's the evangelical conservatives that claim all the scientists are lying and that we shouldn't worry about the planet because their buddy jesus is going to come back.

Sources:
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[why06]

lol. On every forum I've ever been on I always follow one rule: Dont debate religion.

You guys done yet?

[Empire]

nah i'm gonna put my cents in with this:

"scientist" invent weapons, better and better weapons. Whether you want to admit it or not Paroxysm, without the scientist help, people wouldn't be able to kill each other as easily as they do now.

And don't pull out this bullshit on religions starting wars. Fuck, if your gonna do that you might as well say Governments and cultures are harmful to humanity, because as far as i know they start a LOT more wars than religion.

Also about the community service. You see thats why you have all this bullshit about Religions being bad and how they harm the people. Well fuck, i don't know about you, but maybe them going on trips to help others(even if its just to make them feel god, at least they help out), and working in soup kitchens, and their general teachings about peace, all those MUST be a reason that religion is horrible.

You also make out scientist to be these people who just give their all to society, that sacrifice their precious time(no afterlife remember), to better mankind.

You also forget the fat paycheck and the fact that they prosper greatly from inventing something, or finding some bullshit in the stars. What do they do with that money? Well i don't know about you, but i don't know many scientist who live in apartments and give all their money to charity. They get rich. Now i'm not saying that its bad for them to do that, or that they should give all their money to charity.

Its just that you make them out to be saints. They aint. And the majority of the pro-evolutionist scientist, are smug assholes.

[Tiresome]

Are you insane? Look at the countless wars justifiable by religious ideology, look at the Salem witch trials, look at Shariah Law in the middle east, look at the "Christian-Scientists" killing children with diabetes, look at the dark ages, look at the inquisition and don't even get me started on sectarian violence. Religious belief doesn't harm anyone my ass. Religion is divisive. Regarding the community service, what the hell does that have to do with this? You can keep bringing this up every time a conversation gets long winded about an issue you deem unimportant. How about this Empire, you go help at a soup kitchen instead of bitching on the internet how people don't help the poor. If you have nothing of value to say then stop talking. Scientists are out there trying to find cures for cancers, perfect medical procedures, doing research on biological agents that can eat through half the human race in the hopes of creating vaccines and cures. Scientists are out there trying to find other sources of energy so that Americans can keep up their bloated lethargic lifestyles. Your ignorance pisses me off to no end.




Wow, I don't even know where to start with this train-wreck of an argument. "Spaceships and all that shit", wtf are you talking about? I assume someone on here is going to cite the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so here's a short history lesson for your ignorant asses.

"According to most estimates, the immediate effects of the blast killed approximately 70,000 people in Hiroshima.[39] Estimates of total deaths by the end of 1945 from burns, radiation and related disease, the effects of which were aggravated by lack of medical resources, range from 90,000 to 140,000. Some estimates state up to 200,000 had died by 1950"

200,000 is an unimaginable loss of life, now lets imagine the alternative:

"Operation Downfall was the overall Allied plan for the invasion of Japan near the end of World War II. The operation was cancelled when Japan surrendered after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet Union's declaration of war against Japan...
Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties."

So in the end the "evil scientists" actually ended up mitigating the lose of life. Learn your shit before you even start arguing. Global climate change is an issue not caused by scientists but uncontrolled industrial monopolies. The scientists are the ones trying to revert the damages the human race has done to the planet, but it's the evangelical conservatives that claim all the scientists are lying and that we shouldn't worry about the planet because their buddy jesus is going to come back.

Sources:
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You, sir, know how to debate.

Perhaps it is that scientists have evidence and make sense, can explain how they came to whatever conclusion it is that they may or may not have come to, whereas religions seem to be fallacious and nonsensical, as well as providing no evidence and relying on someone to use their imagination or have 'faith'.

[Maddoc]

Are you insane? Look at the countless wars justifiable by religious ideology, look at the Salem witch trials, look at Shariah Law in the middle east, look at the "Christian-Scientists" killing children with diabetes, look at the dark ages, look at the inquisition and don't even get me started on sectarian violence. Religious belief doesn't harm anyone my ass. Religion is divisive. Regarding the community service, what the hell does that have to do with this? You can keep bringing this up every time a conversation gets long winded about an issue you deem unimportant. How about this Empire, you go help at a soup kitchen instead of bitching on the internet how people don't help the poor. If you have nothing of value to say then stop talking. Scientists are out there trying to find cures for cancers, perfect medical procedures, doing research on biological agents that can eat through half the human race in the hopes of creating vaccines and cures. Scientists are out there trying to find other sources of energy so that Americans can keep up their bloated lethargic lifestyles. Your ignorance pisses me off to no end.




Wow, I don't even know where to start with this train-wreck of an argument. "Spaceships and all that shit", wtf are you talking about? I assume someone on here is going to cite the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so here's a short history lesson for your ignorant asses.

"According to most estimates, the immediate effects of the blast killed approximately 70,000 people in Hiroshima.[39] Estimates of total deaths by the end of 1945 from burns, radiation and related disease, the effects of which were aggravated by lack of medical resources, range from 90,000 to 140,000. Some estimates state up to 200,000 had died by 1950"

200,000 is an unimaginable loss of life, now lets imagine the alternative:

"Operation Downfall was the overall Allied plan for the invasion of Japan near the end of World War II. The operation was cancelled when Japan surrendered after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet Union's declaration of war against Japan...
Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties."

So in the end the "evil scientists" actually ended up mitigating the lose of life. Learn your shit before you even start arguing. Global climate change is an issue not caused by scientists but uncontrolled industrial monopolies. The scientists are the ones trying to revert the damages the human race has done to the planet, but it's the evangelical conservatives that claim all the scientists are lying and that we shouldn't worry about the planet because their buddy jesus is going to come back.

Sources:
Operation Downfall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know how many cancers have been caused by the nuclear bombings? Some people, survived, spread it, hell, brain cancer has develpoed a new stem because of the chemicals. How many people have died by cancers? Hm.... Millions? And thats just North America (AFTER BOTH BOMBINGS). Religion DOESNT harm people, because the scientists are the one who MAKE the weapons that religious use because they HAVE TO (BECAUSE SCIENTISTS ATTACKED THEM). The scientists go bug-fuck with their money because they sucked the goverments dick until they came money because of this: "Oh look, a star burst! Oh no! That happened 16 MILLION YEARS AGO! (BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR THE LIGHT TO REACH THE TELESCOPES THEY USE)" Science is used to make the poisons that killl good people. Yes, religion has it's faults, but SCIENCE has more: When they make all the discoveries they can, they go bug-fuck and say "I deserve the nobel prize because I fucked a dog and turned it into a cluster-fucked elmo-looking thing". And if you didn't notice, the Japanese civilians WELCOMED the USA/Canadian Forces, because the Japanese were worse than the Americans. Science and religion are the same thing with two differant stories to tell, but science is worse, because they try to outsmart everyone, and they think they're better, when in the end they aren't. Scientists are human. Bizitch.

/me

You, sir, know how to debate.

Perhaps it is that scientists have evidence and make sense, can explain how they came to whatever conclusion it is that they may or may not have come to, whereas religions seem to be fallacious and nonsensical, as well as providing no evidence and relying on someone to use their imagination or have 'faith'.

Belief is the strongest motivator, because if you were supposed to get paid 1mill, but didnt believe you were going to, you wouldn't do shit.

[Sir Nathan]

You know how many cancers have been caused by the nuclear bombings? Some people, survived, spread it, hell, brain cancer has develpoed a new stem because of the chemicals. How many people have died by cancers? Hm.... Millions? And thats just North America (AFTER BOTH BOMBINGS). Religion DOESNT harm people, because the scientists are the one who MAKE the weapons that religious use because they HAVE TO (BECAUSE SCIENTISTS ATTACKED THEM). The scientists go bug-fuck with their money because they sucked the goverments dick until they came money because of this: "Oh look, a star burst! Oh no! That happened 16 MILLION YEARS AGO! (BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR THE LIGHT TO REACH THE TELESCOPES THEY USE)" Science is used to make the poisons that killl good people. Yes, religion has it's faults, but SCIENCE has more: When they make all the discoveries they can, they go bug-fuck and say "I deserve the nobel prize because I fucked a dog and turned it into a cluster-fucked elmo-looking thing". And if you didn't notice, the Japanese civilians WELCOMED the USA/Canadian Forces, because the Japanese were worse than the Americans. Science and religion are the same thing with two differant stories to tell, but science is worse, because they try to outsmart everyone, and they think they're better, when in the end they aren't. Scientists are human. Bizitch.

/me



Belief is the strongest motivator, because if you were supposed to get paid 1mill, but didnt believe you were going to, you wouldn't do shit.

Just owned that motherfucker. Keep it up, it's getting interesting.

[Paroxysm]

"scientist" invent weapons, better and better weapons. Whether you want to admit it or not Paroxysm, without the scientist help, people wouldn't be able to kill each other as easily as they do now.

I have no issue accepting that scientist invented some of the worlds greatest killing machines, why would you even assume I would have issue with this? What you seem to not understand is the purposes behind these inventions, read a few books on Alfred Nobel (inventor of dynamite and the Nobel Peace prize) or Robert Oppenheimer (lead scientist of the Manhattan project), these men went out of their way to perfect warfare not so that more wars can be fought, but so that man would see the horrors of war and would never dare to fight ever again. They thought if people would see just how powerful these weapons are, they wouldn't dare to fight ever again. But what happens is fervent nationalism, ideologies and ultimately religion divide the human race. Only when we see ourselves as different do we have an easier time killing each other, when in reality we aren't very different at all.

And don't pull out this bullshit on religions starting wars. Fuck, if your gonna do that you might as well say Governments and cultures are harmful to humanity, because as far as i know they start a LOT more wars than religion.

Read my post, justifying war and causing war are different.

Also about the community service. You see thats why you have all this bullshit about Religions being bad and how they harm the people. Well fuck, i don't know about you, but maybe them going on trips to help others(even if its just to make them feel god, at least they help out), and working in soup kitchens, and their general teachings about peace, all those MUST be a reason that religion is horrible.

Religions do provide a beneficial service but ultimately they don't do anything that secular groups aren't doing, the only reason religious groups are better at it is because they get more money from the congregations. The harm religion causes far out weighs any good that it may cause, this is very well illustrated in one of the Intelligence^2 debates:

It's a five part debate so you may want to open it in another window if you watch it (however I doubt any of you will, god forbid you have to listen to people talk for more than 5 minutes)

You also make out scientist to be these people who just give their all to society, that sacrifice their precious time(no afterlife remember), to better mankind.

Not all scientists are nonbelievers admittedly a disproportionate amount are, relative to the general non-scientist population. It's not that scientists are philanthropists and religious people are all malicious pricks, they both are trying to do what they think is best, science just happens to be a more effective means to achieve improved societal well-being.

You also forget the fat paycheck and the fact that they prosper greatly from inventing something, or finding some bullshit in the stars. What do they do with that money? Well i don't know about you, but i don't know many scientist who live in apartments and give all their money to charity. They get rich. Now i'm not saying that its bad for them to do that, or that they should give all their money to charity.

You really have this fantastically deluded understanding of who scientists are.

Its just that you make them out to be saints. They aint. And the majority of the pro-evolutionist scientist, are smug assholes.

I clearly pointed out why this is incorrect and regarding the pro-evolution scientists... you know you just described practically every scientist?
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scientists may appear smug to you because it gets amazingly frustrating to have some trucker walk up to you and ask you if you "believe in evilution", then when you tell them "sure", they give you a completely inane, piss-poor argument and expect you to be convinced that the research and rigorous testing done by the entirety of the scientific community is disproven by the crockaduck.

You know how many cancers have been caused by the nuclear bombings? Some people, survived, spread it, hell, brain cancer has develpoed a new stem because of the chemicals. How many people have died by cancers? Hm.... Millions? And thats just North America (AFTER BOTH BOMBINGS). Religion DOESNT harm people, because the scientists are the one who MAKE the weapons that religious use because they HAVE TO (BECAUSE SCIENTISTS ATTACKED THEM). The scientists go bug-fuck with their money because they sucked the goverments dick until they came money because of this: "Oh look, a star burst! Oh no! That happened 16 MILLION YEARS AGO! (BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR THE LIGHT TO REACH THE TELESCOPES THEY USE)" Science is used to make the poisons that killl good people. Yes, religion has it's faults, but SCIENCE has more: When they make all the discoveries they can, they go bug-fuck and say "I deserve the nobel prize because I fucked a dog and turned it into a cluster-fucked elmo-looking thing". And if you didn't notice, the Japanese civilians WELCOMED the USA/Canadian Forces, because the Japanese were worse than the Americans. Science and religion are the same thing with two differant stories to tell, but science is worse, because they try to outsmart everyone, and they think they're better, when in the end they aren't. Scientists are human. Bizitch.

Wow, talking about completely inane, piss-poor arguments...
I honestly can't do through two sentences in your post without face-palming because of all the monumental ignorance you spew. Let me introduce you to fractal-wrongness, because you kind sir are the epitome of it.

Just owned that motherfucker. Keep it up, it's getting interesting.

Confirmation bias, nigga, you a victim of it.


“Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing.”
~Euripides