Re-Writing Rotmg Private Server Source Code in C++?

[marinepower]

I would just like to say:
What's best for you might not necessarily be best for the team. C++ programmers are few and far between, especially good ones. Realize that switching to a lesser used language diminishes the pool of potential programmers that might volunteer their time. Also, it's very hard to jump straight into, so recruiting those without C++ experience would be a very grueling ordeal.

Learning to read code other than your own is an essential skill to have. At the very least try to get a very good understanding of the existing code before you write your own. Someone already went out and did the work for you. At the very least consider one solution to the problem, and think about how you could improve on it, rather than going in blind.

The fact that you say you don't like using other people's work is quite funny, so I thought I would just point that out. The entire copyrighted rotmg client as well as the protocol it uses comes to mind.

Finally, users don't care what language a server is written in. They care about gameplay. I personally suffer from this a lot, where I just enjoy writing the tools and not the actual game, so it's just something to keep in mind.

Again, not trying to give you a hard time, but just trying to offer some advice.

[Trapped]

On another side note, I never did ask C453 to rewrite the whole source

he never responded to any of my requests

This thing will be a bit like a challenge since people will flame me for sure, but whatever.
Quote #1: Screenshot by Lightshot
The re-write thing is a mistake by me, I'm sorry, I did even check the definition of "rewrite" just a second ago. But whatever, what you asked him isn't something nice: you asked him to actually do a complex and tedious work, without probably even paying him in any way. Althought you did already know (I hope you do actually read other threads) that he doesn't want to ever have relationships with MPGH and its users anymore.

Quote #2: Well, actually, he was occupied in laughing terribly bad and hard due to what you said in the quote above - source: we're good friends, and talk everyday lelelel

That's pretty much it.

[sjustin1996]

I would just like to say:
What's best for you might not necessarily be best for the team. C++ programmers are few and far between, especially good ones. Realize that switching to a lesser used language diminishes the pool of potential programmers that might volunteer their time. Also, it's very hard to jump straight into, so recruiting those without C++ experience would be a very grueling ordeal.

Learning to read code other than your own is an essential skill to have. At the very least try to get a very good understanding of the existing code before you write your own. Someone already went out and did the work for you. At the very least consider one solution to the problem, and think about how you could improve on it, rather than going in blind.

The fact that you say you don't like using other people's work is quite funny, so I thought I would just point that out. The entire copyrighted rotmg client as well as the protocol it uses comes to mind.

Finally, users don't care what language a server is written in. They care about gameplay. I personally suffer from this a lot, where I just enjoy writing the tools and not the actual game, so it's just something to keep in mind.

Again, not trying to give you a hard time, but just trying to offer some advice.

I do like working with private servers, and if people really were interested in it, I would dive into creating my own game as well. Right now, however, I don't have the funding for any of the software required for such a task, so we're going to have to use WildShadow's work. Since Kabam has taken a part of it, I feel that I have some rights, perhaps not legally, to take the work and continue it as it would have been without them.

A further reason for the switch between languages is that I know quite a few C++ developers, and I know very few C# developers. I've found that most C++ developers weren't interested in the project due to their dislike for C#.

Thank you again for your advice, but I have some very thorough reasoning I went through. I do think through every one of my decisions for a good amount of time before presenting them to other team members. This way, any changes can be made and any additions can be easily made as well.

This thing will be a bit like a challenge since people will flame me for sure, but whatever.
Quote #1: Screenshot by Lightshot
The re-write thing is a mistake by me, I'm sorry, I did even check the definition of "rewrite" just a second ago. But whatever, what you asked him isn't something nice: you asked him to actually do a complex and tedious work, without probably even paying him in any way. Althought you did already know (I hope you do actually read other threads) that he doesn't want to ever have relationships with MPGH and its users anymore.

Quote #2: Well, actually, he was occupied in laughing terribly bad and hard due to what you said in the quote above - source: we're good friends, and talk everyday lelelel

That's pretty much it.

Thank you for the clarification, and I was worried that message might sound a bit corny. It was still rude to make no bother to respond to such an eager acceptance. Even though the community wasn't his place, that's not an excuse that most people would accept.

I suppose I worded the question a bit wrong. I meant for him to contribute in that way, to writing a new source. I was not, by any means, asking him to do most or any big part of the work. If you're interested, what I really meant to say would have been: "Would you be interested in contributing to the development of the SoulForge Project, while we write our new source in C++?"

I'm glad you took the time to clarify that, as there was some mis-wording done on both sides.

--But once again, what I said was not nearly that out-of-the-ordinary. Not enough, at least, for an excuse like laughing too hard to be valid.

[krazyshank]

The only advantage I see in C++ vs C# in this scenario is that you could really control the garbage collection and make it as efficient as possible.
Furthermore, I doubt any of you are skilled enough to do so ruining the point.
You can get more done with fewer lines of code in C#, and C# executables are compiled to bytecode at runtime based on the current machine's hardware making room for large performance increases when the software is run across a large variety of different machines. (assuming it's open source)

EDIT: Reading over this, it seemed like more of a put down.
While I have my doubts, I do think that the server does need to be rewritten - BADLY.
C++ or C# won't really matter in terms of limitations, and each has its benefits, but you guys need to think about the time investment required. You can't just "learn c++" for this project and considering c++ is much harder to learn than C#, vb, etc, you can't do it in a timely manner.

[Trapped]

I don't have the funding for any of the software required for such a task

Just as a reminder.
Visual Studio Express/Student: free at microsof*****m
GCC compiler: opensource somewhere I don't currently remember about, included in every linux distro
MonoGame: opensource at monogame.net
XNA Studio: free at microsof*****m
FlashDevelop: opensource at flashdevelop.org
Oracle Java virtual machine (don't be scared by the VM, it's exactly like .NET): free somewhere too (it's 5:43 AM here, sorry but I'm quite tired)
Eclipse: opensource at eclipse.org

All of these programs can be used, without any cost ($$$ or €€€ or whatever), to write your own game. The whole thing is not too hard, just takes some time and requires a lot of dedication (not like I do, someone could know my usual "fuck this XNA shit" message on Skype).
Publishing the game? There's Valve's Steam Greenlight. Dedicated servers? Either make it single player, or sell it, or microtransactions, or there are anyways some free options (for example there was a cloud provider that gave away 20 CCU for free, it's not that bad to start).

[sjustin1996]

Just as a reminder.
Visual Studio Express/Student: free at microsof*****m
GCC compiler: opensource somewhere I don't currently remember about, included in every linux distro
MonoGame: opensource at monogame.net
XNA Studio: free at microsof*****m
FlashDevelop: opensource at flashdevelop.org
Oracle Java virtual machine (don't be scared by the VM, it's exactly like .NET): free somewhere too (it's 5:43 AM here, sorry but I'm quite tired)
Eclipse: opensource at eclipse.org

All of these programs can be used, without any cost ($$$ or €€€ or whatever), to write your own game. The whole thing is not too hard, just takes some time and requires a lot of dedication (not like I do, someone could know my usual "fuck this XNA shit" message on Skype).
Publishing the game? There's Valve's Steam Greenlight. Dedicated servers? Either make it single player, or sell it, or microtransactions, or there are anyways some free options (for example there was a cloud provider that gave away 20 CCU for free, it's not that bad to start).

I forgot some of those existed, thanks for the reminder.

The only advantage I see in C++ vs C# in this scenario is that you could really control the garbage collection and make it as efficient as possible.
Furthermore, I doubt any of you are skilled enough to do so ruining the point.
You can get more done with fewer lines of code in C#, and C# executables are compiled to bytecode at runtime based on the current machine's hardware making room for large performance increases when the software is run across a large variety of different machines. (assuming it's open source)

EDIT: Reading over this, it seemed like more of a put down.
While I have my doubts, I do think that the server does need to be rewritten - BADLY.
C++ or C# won't really matter in terms of limitations, and each has its benefits, but you guys need to think about the time investment required. You can't just "learn c++" for this project and considering c++ is much harder to learn than C#, vb, etc, you can't do it in a timely manner.

I don't plan to have Pizazzle or anybody else on my major development team for right now, as they are only just beginning. I am more than happy to keep them around however, as they are very dedicated to the project and have quite a bit of potential. If they don't work out as developers, they will definitely make their way into some other role that is just as important. As for the open-source part, my server will be run on a single type of machine, and it will need to be modified by somebody experienced with C++ if it is to be optimized for other systems, or run on a similar system. We will release a decent core for the server that is functional, but past the point of effectively emulating the original game, we will not be releasing content. We may release tutorials, bug fixes, and other important things, but we will not release any of our own work that is unique to our server.

tl;dr - We will release fixes so that the original game works better on the server, but nothing new unless a mutual agreement is made between myself, the development team, and my fellow administrators. I will need to personally approve any releases, and the development team will have the option to deny my request to release the work that they've done on the server to the community, and each community individually.

I didn't take that as a put-down, as it was simply realistic. Just to reinforce the response, I do definitely understand that my devs can't simply be learning C++ as we go, and will not be taking a major role in development until they are fit to do so.

Thank you for the feedback, and I hope we don't disappoint you when this is finished.

[krazyshank]

I forgot some of those existed, thanks for the reminder.



I don't plan to have Pizazzle or anybody else on my major development team for right now, as they are only just beginning. I am more than happy to keep them around however, as they are very dedicated to the project and have quite a bit of potential. If they don't work out as developers, they will definitely make their way into some other role that is just as important. As for the open-source part, my server will be run on a single type of machine, and it will need to be modified by somebody experienced with C++ if it is to be optimized for other systems, or run on a similar system. We will release a decent core for the server that is functional, but past the point of effectively emulating the original game, we will not be releasing content. We may release tutorials, bug fixes, and other important things, but we will not release any of our own work that is unique to our server.

tl;dr - We will release fixes so that the original game works better on the server, but nothing new unless a mutual agreement is made between myself, the development team, and my fellow administrators. I will need to personally approve any releases, and the development team will have the option to deny my request to release the work that they've done on the server to the community, and each community individually.

I didn't take that as a put-down, as it was simply realistic. Just to reinforce the response, I do definitely understand that my devs can't simply be learning C++ as we go, and will not be taking a major role in development until they are fit to do so.

Thank you for the feedback, and I hope we don't disappoint you when this is finished.

I wish you good luck

[sjustin1996]

I wish you good luck

Thank you!

[UltraN00b]

@ @sjustin1996 Best of Luck with your Project! @marinepower Looks like I have some like-minded people here

[pizazzle]

Nilly Could you lock thread plz?

[UltraN00b]

@ @pizazzle So, you're working on it?

[pizazzle]

@ @pizazzle So, you're working on it?

Well. I know c# well enough for private servers but Sjustin taught me most. But moving to c++ doesn't sound right to me. I would really like to get known around here and I know everyone in this post knows me (as the wannabe mmoe kid. ._.) I would like to be known and maybe work on a big Realm of the Mad God server so I can continue my understanding of c# and maybe get known and post some behaviors and well. Get some friends at least . I'm Sorry for the ramble and thanks for replying @UltraN00b

[UltraN00b]

Heh, @ @pizazzle do it for yourself, not for recognition.... I'm porting it(alone) to Java, for instance.

[pizazzle]

Heh, @ @pizazzle do it for yourself, not for recognition.... I'm porting it(alone) to Java, for instance.

@UltraN00b I Assure U that I wouldn't do this to get any recognition as I just want to be happy doing what I want to do.

[UltraN00b]

@ @pizazzle Well then, help me port it to Java! The more the merrier.