Discussion of Realm Private Servers

[Stellar Spark]

Almost guaranteed that no one will help improve the source in a meaningful way

...evidence? There are more people that can code in this tiny community nowadays, and if that above statement may have truth to it, then I'd believe that we'd have a better chance of forming a greater source out of contributions.

Players there are willing to dump their resources into a "mega" server (one with great quality) so that rotmg can still live to its name.

They would take the source, maybe make some private changes, and open up a server requesting donations.

It should also noted that there are really only two kinds of RotMG public servers that are up for a significantly long amount of time.

1.) Servers and their owners sacrificing any ideas of personal profit from donations and any claim to fame or other notable personal gain to benefit the server as a whole. Aside from the extensive time Joshy took over, this was Phoenix Realms.

2.) Market assets. People with the money to keep a server up can own a public server for a while or people with easily available infrastructure. One notable example is Potammies' Private Server.

While a successful server type 1 is rare, it usually means a certain benefit to the community. And if anyone with the team, the resources, and the skills to run a long-term (high quality, VPS hosted, >1 yr) type 1 server, it'll benefit the community greatly, even if they don't release the source. At the same time, the very thought of something like that happening is an over-optimistic idea from me.

But for private server/emulator development? That's not a particularly good thing.

From this perspective, the only way we'd really advance above this state is if the experienced and able programmers of this section work together on an open source project. I'm well aware that this is also a fantasized idea, because not all of them will feel that their time is spent properly trying to better a community full of toxic teenagers. Also, I don't think they'd honestly work well together, because each of them with the freedom to do what they want to do due to their skill, they'd do what they want. It'd either end up being a very funky patchwork source or a very plain source from disagreements that would set people apart.

I think here, the American dream would really apply.

"Work hard and work smart, and achieve your goals [in life i guess]"

There just isn't an easy way to change things.

[Kushala Daora]

From this perspective, the only way we'd really advance above this state is if the experienced and able programmers of this section work together on an open source project.

That's something that almost all of us would love to see one day. There's a chance it could happen, with a "universal" source that we all work on.

But as many of us know, something like that is perhaps nothing but a pipe dream.

[nilly]

...evidence? There are more people that can code in this tiny community nowadays, and if that above statement may have truth to it, then I'd believe that we'd have a better chance of forming a greater source out of contributions.

As for the statement about those with the ability to code... there are less than 10 people in this section that I consider being able to code, all of whom has been apart of one private server project or another. While there are more than 10 that can can whip up a few lines of code for a new admin command or to throw some XML together to create a new item, there are very few people in this section that can tackle the hard problems. Problems like improving stability and optimizing the server. Those are the problems I am talking about solving when I said "improve the source in a meaningful way."

Evidence? Provide me some proof that says otherwise. People have taken open (or leaked rather) sources and worked on them privately. There has not once been a successful active open source project here. It has been something of a tradition here to take others work, improve upon it privately, and then perhaps later release the work as "Enter Name here"'s source. If I were to release a source, I would expect the same thing to happen. Does it help everyone here? Sure. Does it help the project I'm working on? Not likely.

It is just me or does this thread sound like a plea for people to make public their hard work for the betterment of all?

[Stellar Spark]

there are less than 10 people in this section that I consider being able to code

Let's rewind, 1 to 2 years? I think our problem was worse back then.

If I were to release a source, I would expect the same thing to happen. Does it help everyone here? Sure. Does it help the project I'm working on? Not likely.

I understand and support that one may keep their private source they're using, but if they can, contribute openly in what ways they can. People can keep whatever they hold some pride to, but it's not necessarily always survival of the fittest.

It has been something of a tradition here to take others work, improve upon it privately, and then perhaps later release the work as "Enter Name here"'s source. ...It is just me or does this thread sound like a plea for people to make public their hard work for the betterment of all?

I never took you for a cynist, nilly. I personally found myself quite intrigued because the problem we face here is a "people" problem. No one asked you to give up what made your source and work unique and strong, and at the same time you shouldn't be riding 5 leagues above everyone else. (hint, it leads to discontentment)

That's not to say that I'm specifically taking you as an example, for it could apply to quite a few others. That's also not to say that it's likely such a thing would happen with the greater availability of source code around.

It was not my intention to drag along the topic of sources. :P There are plenty of other topics that branch out from Realm private servers, whether that's a surprise to you or not. Though I understand, due to my misleading optimism and a bit of dwelling and repetition of certain ideas.

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To add on to my previous statement, and to maybe try discussing something that doesn't get either wistful or cynist opinions loaded into it...

During some pondering of Phoenix 1 back in the mid-year of 2014, I thought about what was presented by a server and what wasn't.

I will give credit where credit is due. All servers face a problem that they simply can't/haven't achieved the state of optimization akin to Production. Many servers were often plagued with saving problems, easy dupes, exploits, latency, and long connection times.

The average private server owner is often powerless against these agents of game-breakyness, clarifying that optimizations and stability are the most meaningful improvements that can be done to a server. Yet, there's quite a bit more in the picture than just that.

"Prod Dungeons" is something i see listed as a "feature" in private server threads. Why is this so? Well, production has some well-designed neato dungeons that people would love to see in a private server. It's only shortly that one can move into the custom dungeons section and witness a sudden degrade of quality before his/her own eyes.

I believe that if you're one of the many people who are not as skilled, or as hardworking, or as "lucky" as the people who can manipulate the source like molding clay, that there are other methods to making a decent server.

It all revolves around paying close attention to design and interactions. If you can't code a fix for your vault exploit, then at least put some time and effort to really look at one's renditions of production works as well as their own custom work.

Behaviors, object XML's, and mapmaking are generally considered the easiest tasks of server work. Why do people make such a poor job at them? It's far easier for the average non-coder to spend their time really keeping balance proper with items and classes and keeping a proper difficulty scale with dungeons and bosses.

If you happen to be the majority of the minority who at least know how to work a little magic into wServer and maybe an as3 client, there's a lot of hidden possibilities that can even trump those big fancy super coder servers if one can take the time to build a design, work through flaws, and take a project into action. If you happen to be the minority of the minority who actually know how to code...well do your own thing xP.

Interactions is another side of the triangle that can be achieved without code knowledge. Whether you're hosting a "have fun kill stuff" server, or a down to the ground "legit" server, there needs to be proper action done by the administration of a server. It's very important that if you cannot sustain the other parts of the triangle that you at least treat your players properly.

From my perspective, the three things that make a good server are Structure, Design, and Interactions.

Non-coders can achieve two out of three. Coders can achieve the full triangle. There isn't a good excuse for having a bad private server and expecting to get substantial donations.

[nilly]

@ProHackBot999, Tell me why this community deserves more than it already has? This community isn't a bunch a farmers, helping one another out in an effort to sustain a way of life, but a acidic pool of piranhas that will eat you whole if you let them. That isn't to say nothing ever good has come from this community but rather a general statement of how people treat one another here. I'm certainly not going to be the one to change that, not anytime soon anyways.

[BARm]

@ProHackBot999, Tell me why this community deserves more than it already has? This community isn't a bunch a farmers, helping one another out in an effort to sustain a way of life, but a acidic pool of piranhas that will eat you whole if you let them. That isn't to say nothing ever good has come from this community but rather a general statement of how people treat one another here. I'm certainly not going to be the one to change that, not anytime soon anyways.

Agreed.
And that not only comes from the low community, but the guys with reputation here could destroy someone's dream only because
he posted something that is not really helpful or anything like that. People will go ham on him.

Note: I do not say that posting non-useful things or stuff that someone else made and your the one who posted it is a good thing, but still, we are all people.

[Prince Zuko]

but still, we are all people.

As if that isn't overlooked all the time. Some of the people who can code extremely well, or efficiently and can add in super cool things that a non-coder would not be able to do, really sets a superiority to the stage. Anyone who can code like that and manipulate a server in multiple ways, to create features a non-coder cant even comprehend, would make them automatically feel instantly better than the person who can't code. It makes them feel superior in many ways, whether the non-coders are too young to understand legitimate coding or just don't want to learn, its really makes the more experienced people just overlook the community as a whole, except for the "10 people who can legitimately code" . I am not saying there is anything wrong with not wanting to work with someone who cannot code, near as well as you, but that's why I feel the community is like piranhas. Unless you're classed in the people who can code category you're basically looked like an idiot among masters.

--

Another opinion of mine, is to why everyone who can code cannot help develop a source together is because this whole community is filled with hate. I hate him, he flamed him, look at him what a idiot, I cant stand him, etc etc. There is a constant battle , on who can develop the best server, add the most things, or make the most money. Its understand that you might wanna flame someone or you don't like someone, but the whole community is turned against anyone who wants to argue. I mean think about it, imagine if everyone who could code, put there differences aside, and all tried to make a source. Not just one-up everyone in developing a single source, but actually attempt to make a serious source. It would definitely be the most advanced source around... I mean if you just look at what a few people have made, Imagine everyone.


And now I guess its time, for people to call me a dumbass or shoot holes in my response

[Kushala Daora]

It would definitely be the most advanced source around... I mean if you just look at what a few people have made, Imagine everyone.

That would boil down to the ideas that some people try to put into the project; not everyone likes each others' ideas.

[Prince Zuko]

That would boil down to the ideas that some people try to put into the project; not everyone likes each others' ideas.

That's true, but it wouldn't matter anyways, the coders would never work together anyways too much hatred among everyone.

[Sevarous]

To address the concept of 'coder teamwork!': having multiple projects being worked on independently allows a sense of competition... and I can't see how that's a bad thing.