Here's it!

[bigboypantsft]

Is sex before marriage ethical ??

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't really have proof from the Qura'an to prove myself right (most likely cause I don't memorize all of it) and as for the Hadith I'm sure I heard one before yet don't remember the context. However I do have a point here: If those things didn't happen, how come I heard of them. I mean you might say that almost everything we hear is either gossip or never happened. Well, I 100% agree unless a majority of people happen to know the exact same thing. They can't all agree to believe in one lie can they? But basically do we actually have proof to prove anything (we as humans not as Muslims).

so sorry it took me so long to reply

No, it's just me. I'm sorry for the late reply.

well, consider Islam a country. King is Allah, and prince is Muahmmed. His followers are the government. Now Muhammed and his followers did the exact same thing which is freeing Muslim slaves when possible. (It wasn't always possible due to the lack of money). And all the sahaba (Muslims at that time) did the same thing too. If you're going to speak about "Muslims" these days, then I can't prove you wrong in any manner. We're corrupted, not committed and lack conviction. Even I am not that committed. I watch porn, don't pray, cuss etc.. So these days there's not even one Muslim close to the ones before.

You do realize the Prophet owned slaves right?

It literally says in the quran you are allowed to have sex with the slaves you own.

If you're allowed to have sex with slaves, then i'm pretty sure you're allowed to have them.


Also, Islam is not a country, it's a religion. It is held at a completely different standard. Islam based on Quran and Sunna. Now nowhere in either does it abolish slavery. In fact, slavery is somewhat encouraged by saying there's nothing wrong with having sex with your slaves.



Also, you're not the only one. Don't feel bad.

https://www.mpgh.net/forum/showthread.php?t=794918

[DarkLordXYZ]

ooooohhh That's what you mean by slaves eh. I did mention on top that freed "Muslim" slaves, not other religions. I can simply explain why but let that be at the end. Now as for the slaves part. These people aren't literally slaves, they're captives. They were considered part of the loot in war. Only those who participated in war were allowed to have sex with them. "Wa Ma Malakt Aymanukum" is the real aya. Mentioned alot of times in the Quraan. Now, explaining how they were kept as slaves. The word "slaves" here doesn't mean literal slaves: Torturing them and killing/punishing them if they don't. More like Jawari. Now Jawari is plural for Jareyah which means a female servant. They just serve you and nothing more. (The female servants are not allowed to have sex with, unlike war captives). Now to the very first part: Why not save other slaves as well. Well let me rephrase to you this way: If you got a poor relative, would rather help him out or help others first? Well, logically you'd help HIM out. And when you're done, and no one else in your family needs help, you can help others. Now the Muslim slaves were alot. They freed as much as they can, yet they weren't able to free them all due to the high prices and life conditions back then. Abu Bakr for example: He bought Bilal Ibn Rabah, the prophet's Mu'athen, (they bought slaves so they can free them) with a really high price since his owner refused to sell him. And Abu Bakr was one of the richest people in Quraysh. He spent all his money doing this and helping Muslims out in war.

You do realize the Prophet owned slaves right?

It literally says in the quran you are allowed to have sex with the slaves you own.

If you're allowed to have sex with slaves, then i'm pretty sure you're allowed to have them.


Also, Islam is not a country, it's a religion. It is held at a completely different standard. Islam based on Quran and Sunna. Now nowhere in either does it abolish slavery. In fact, slavery is somewhat encouraged by saying there's nothing wrong with having sex with your slaves.



Also, you're not the only one. Don't feel bad.

https://www.mpgh.net/forum/showthread.php?t=794918

[DarkLordXYZ]

@bigboypantsft No .

[Empire]

[B]I don't really have proof from the Qura'an to prove myself right (most likely cause I don't memorize all of it) and as for the Hadith I'm sure I heard one before yet don't remember the context. However I do have a point here: If those things didn't happen, how come I heard of them. I mean you might say that almost everything we hear is either gossip or never happened. Well, I 100% agree unless a majority of people happen to know the exact same thing. They can't all agree to believe in one lie can they? But basically do we actually have proof to prove anything (we as humans not as Muslims).

So you don't have any proof......

And then there is this:
"But basically do we actually have proof to prove anything?"

Really...just....really? I mean i'm asking for a verse from the quran and you respond with that.


Man.

You really give muslims a bad name.

ooooohhh That's what you mean by slaves eh. I did mention on top that freed "Muslim" slaves, not other religions. I can simply explain why but let that be at the end. Now as for the slaves part. These people aren't literally slaves, they're captives. They were considered part of the loot in war. Only those who participated in war were allowed to have sex with them. "Wa Ma Malakt Aymanukum" is the real aya. Mentioned alot of times in the Quraan. Now, explaining how they were kept as slaves. The word "slaves" here doesn't mean literal slaves: Torturing them and killing/punishing them if they don't. More like Jawari. Now Jawari is plural for Jareyah which means a female servant. They just serve you and nothing more. (The female servants are not allowed to have sex with, unlike war captives). Now to the very first part: Why not save other slaves as well. Well let me rephrase to you this way: If you got a poor relative, would rather help him out or help others first? Well, logically you'd help HIM out. And when you're done, and no one else in your family needs help, you can help others. Now the Muslim slaves were alot. They freed as much as they can, yet they weren't able to free them all due to the high prices and life conditions back then. Abu Bakr for example: He bought Bilal Ibn Rabah, the prophet's Mu'athen, (they bought slaves so they can free them) with a really high price since his owner refused to sell him. And Abu Bakr was one of the richest people in Quraysh. He spent all his money doing this and helping Muslims out in war.

Ok I asked if Islam allowed slavery.

You responded with:
-You can rape PoW's.
-You can torture PoW's.
-You can have female slaves
-Abu bakr bought slaves so they could be freed, but that only helps the slave trade.
>explanation: Slaves for the most part didn't get traded a lot. Buying a slave regardless if you were going to kill him or free him didn't matter, as long as the slave trader got his money. In the end, the slave would end up working for his would be "master" anyway, but with freedom. It makes almost no difference to the slave trade and if anything all it did was lessen the amount of wealth abu bakr had by a tiny amount.(because servants cost nothing and were half-slaves anyway).

:/

I'm sorry we asked a simple question and you responded with an abundant amount of bad things.

Please, don't make/commenton these threads when you don't know what you are talking about.

[DarkLordXYZ]

I'm sorry if what I wrote contradicted each other I'll explain what I meant. I don't know all the of Quraan and that's why I couldn't provide proof. All I could do was just google it, which ofcourse will end up unsuccessful cus you most likely have already searched it up. As for the "we don't have proof for anything part" I myself have had alot of questions about my religion that couldn't be answered. And ofcourse the main one was: How can we prove that all of what's being told to us happened without concrete proof. That's what I meant. And I still didn't get an answer for that. And again I'm sorry if what didn't make any sense.

So you don't have any proof......

And then there is this:
"But basically do we actually have proof to prove anything?"

Really...just....really? I mean i'm asking for a verse from the quran and you respond with that.


Man.

You really give muslims a bad name.

[SillPlain]

I'm sorry if what I wrote contradicted each other I'll explain what I meant. I don't know all the of Quraan and that's why I couldn't provide proof. All I could do was just google it, which ofcourse will end up unsuccessful cus you most likely have already searched it up. As for the "we don't have proof for anything part" I myself have had alot of questions about my religion that couldn't be answered. And ofcourse the main one was: How can we prove that all of what's being told to us happened without concrete proof. That's what I meant. And I still didn't get an answer for that. And again I'm sorry if what didn't make any sense.

then u should read and understand ur holy quran 1st before making thread like this.
as i am sure sadam hussain, osama bin laden have fully understand quran and all the hadiths, as well as Ali Sina from faith freedom international. u should debate the living one, Ali Sina. who originally from Iran, former Persian who currently not having even a bit of their own traditional lives coz their library burnt down to pieces by "u know who" living as muslems for so long, and have read all quran and hadith over and over and fully understand what is stated there since it is his own native language.
i an no one who just passed by this forum and saw this. after i read lots of things in faith freedom international. and i can say what stated there is very logical and is all truth.

[samerlol]

This message @SillPlain, @[MPGH]Empire and @Ferris Bueller.

DarkLordXYZ created this thread to answer your Questions not to make it complicated.

[Empire]

It's just @Empire, but the questions couldn't be answered with limited knowledge.

[Frought]

I don't really have proof from the Qura'an to prove myself right (most likely cause I don't memorize all of it) and as for the Hadith I'm sure I heard one before yet don't remember the context. However I do have a point here: If those things didn't happen, how come I heard of them. I mean you might say that almost everything we hear is either gossip or never happened. Well, I 100% agree unless a majority of people happen to know the exact same thing. They can't all agree to believe in one lie can they? But basically do we actually have proof to prove anything (we as humans not as Muslims).

so sorry it took me so long to reply

No, it's just me. I'm sorry for the late reply.

well, consider Islam a country. King is Allah, and prince is Muahmmed. His followers are the government. Now Muhammed and his followers did the exact same thing which is freeing Muslim slaves when possible. (It wasn't always possible due to the lack of money). And all the sahaba (Muslims at that time) did the same thing too. If you're going to speak about "Muslims" these days, then I can't prove you wrong in any manner. We're corrupted, not committed and lack conviction. Even I am not that committed. I watch porn, don't pray, cuss etc.. So these days there's not even one Muslim close to the ones before.

Don't say bullshit please, no one says anything when he knows nothing. If you don't know Qur'an and Hadith then don't open a thread where the Qur'an is the actual evidence (You even watch porn and you don't pray).

[Ferris Bueller]

Don't say bullshit please, no one says anything when he knows nothing. If you don't know Qur'an and Hadith then don't open a thread where the Qur'an is the actual evidence (You even watch porn and you don't pray).

Wow hold on a second bra, you have no right to come at him about who is more muslim.

If you think you're any better, you don't know shit about quran, hadith, sunna, or anything else at that.

[checkme323]

can't people just get over islam and let them live there lifes how ever the fuck they want no offence tho

[Ferris Bueller]

can't people just get over islam and let them live there lifes how ever the fuck they want no offence tho

Religion has been a large part of human beings' lives since the beginning of civilization and even way before that.(cavemen had religion too.)

People won't give up religion just like that.