Lets discuss big bang?

[Empire]

Well then "know" is a useless word if you frame it that way. I'm a pragmatist and your definition of "know" serves no purpose and thus is useless. Quit mucking up the waters.

point being is that there is no reason to care, so many waste their life on proving this big bang theory instead of bettering mankind.

[NextGen1]

Well then "know" is a useless word if you frame it that way. I'm a pragmatist and your definition of "know" serves no purpose and thus is useless. Quit mucking up the waters.

If you are a pragmatist, then where is your proof on your "theories"
an "Idea' should be tested to prove its validity.

Where are your tests, Your mocking religion based on your own beliefs, and without fact to support them. Yet you take the tests that have been validated and ignore them....

Your not a pragmatist , Your a self defined pragmatist with a atheist outlook.

Even your modal from wellington says that religion ignores contradictory fact, and science tests theories. Are you making any of your statements based on scientific theory or fact, or are you merely adopting a "See to believe" outlook. Cause science says our creation could not have been by chance....

[Paroxysm]

@ Parox

This isn't (for me) a religious debate, This isn't about my beliefs or disbeliefs, it is merely (by most means) a argument against creation as a occurrence of chance.

You base everything you do (subconsciously or otherwise) on statistical probability, I am sure you have walked through a thunderstorm in the park, and thought to yourself, "I will be safe" but you believe this because in any given year, the probability of being struck by lightning is only 1 in 750,000

Such a small gamble in comparison, don't you think?

so the fact that Morowitz of Yale University, has come to the mathematical probability that the odds of life creating itself by chance are 1 in 10 followed by....... one billion zeroes......... which gives it a Zero Chance of occurring....and that holds no bearing, but with your life, your willing to gamble on one in 750,000 Or on the probability that you will not be hit by a car when you walk across the street.

every occurrence in existence can be calculated with mathematical equastions. Fact is subconsciously , we do the same thing everyday, and I am not willing to throw out the idea of a GOD , especially when science cannot prove or disprove it, and with the the Facts Piling against "Chance" as a possibility, what is left....

Bare in mind, it's not just the one probability, the actual probability only decreases when you factor in, DNA and it's probability of existing solely by chance , and now you begin factoring in the probability of any prerequisite for life occurring by chance, and you are no longer looking at a sole probability, but more of a improbability.

If for some strange reason, you thought you were the only person in existence, and you stepped out your hut, and you seen a shiny car about a block away from you, as a logical thinker you would have to assume it was either created by someone, or appeared by chance.... I assume that is correct..to say...

Well, If it got there solely by chance , then one would have to assume it's origin is no different then the origin of the trees around you. But if you were to begin an examination of the car, you would notice the car has functionality, moving parts... the moving parts would lead a logical thinker as yourself to the conclusion, it must have been created.

Even though you think you are the only person in the world (in my analogy) and you can't see anyone else around, you still come to the conclusion that this must have been created... By someone or something, It could not have happened by chance, and scientifically, it is impossible.

Now consider the complexity of the universe, it is a million times more complex then that car... yet you can believe the it occurred by chance....

Your argument is almost self refuting.

as far as citing a reliable source, Grote Reber is a renowned astronomer....

My God you didn't just use the argument from design did you? Let me guess next you're going to bring up Behe's Irreducible Complexity?
To claim something is too complex to have arisen from chance is a blatant logical fallacy, you ever heard of the Argument from Ignorance?

[Empire]

the best statement ever:

ignorance is bliss.

[fcmclan]

the big BANG is the reason u were born olawd

[CyberGenius]

the big BANG is the reason u were born olawd

totally of topic nice spam!

[Empire]

totally of topic nice spam!

One to talk...........one to talk.

[Paroxysm]

If you are a pragmatist, then where is your proof on your "theories"
an "Idea' should be tested to prove its validity.

Where are your tests, Your mocking religion based on your own beliefs, and without fact to support them. Yet you take the tests that have been validated and ignore them....

Your not a pragmatist , Your a self defined pragmatist with a atheist outlook.

Even your modal from wellington says that religion ignores contradictory fact, and science tests theories. Are you making any of your statements based on scientific theory or fact, or are you merely adopting a "See to believe" outlook. Cause science says our creation could not have been by chance....

You're getting philosophical skepticism and pragmatic skepticism mixed up. There is no infinite regress in pragmatic skepticism (I'm assuming that's where you're going with that argument).

Fact:
Skeptical people as less likely to believe unsupported claims.

Does a God Exist:
I haven't been presented with any evidence that would necessitate the existence of a God.

Therefore I'm an atheist.

back to the BB discussion:
Let me introduce you to the universe: WMAP Introduction to Cosmology

[Empire]

You're getting philosophical skepticism and pragmatic skepticism mixed up. There is no infinite regress in pragmatic skepticism (I'm assuming that's where you're going with that argument).

Fact:
Skeptical people as less likely to believe unsupported claims.

Does a God Exist:
I haven't been presented with any evidence that would necessitate the existence of a God.

Therefore I'm an atheist.

back to the BB discussion:
Let me introduce you to the universe: WMAP Introduction to Cosmology

*sigh* I see so many wasted lives.

[Paroxysm]

*sigh* I see so many wasted lives.

Listen empire we understand the futility of our existence, some of us just move on. If you want to be knee-deep in nihilism go ahead but some of us don't feel like making smug comments about how other people waste their lives. The only wasted life is that which spends it's life commentating on futility.

[NextGen(1)]

The theory of BBT was crap, and it's still crap.

It isn't Fact, That's why it's called a theory.... So why does everyone debate theories, I have a theory that I have superpowers (not really) where are my advocates..... No where.... really....? Why.... Because it is far-fetched, and there is no real proof, just a theory.

So let me get this right, All matter in the universe was one Big Giant load of crap...Who's mass was so great

like this guy...

[img]https://dunndesigns.files.*********.com/2008/10/wm-ss-fat-guy.jpg[/img]

That it exploded , and out of this explosion was spewing matter as if the man above had eaten to many burgers, and that matter began to clump together, (kind of like that time I left the milk out on the counter and it went bad on me......) and that formed stars, and those dead stars ....planets, and eventually came "Higher Life forms " like Paroxysm over here....

For all this matter to come together like that, Would mean it just had to be adrift aimlessly........In ...One....Freaking...Spot....!.....

Actually, I am almost 100% sure it would have not been moving at all, then it would be theoretically possible that they were situated in such a manner that the gravitation effects on all the particles of and all this other crap would be equal to 0

Well..... That means all this gunk would have had to be still.... motionless....not moving at all....., in what we know as an infinite area. Ok....for paroxysm sake, lets just say that is possible.

Where did all this matter come from? We know l you can't create matter, according to this really smart physics type guys/girls who do nothing but consider it.

Like this guy:

[img]https://www.untoldentertainmen*****m/blog/img/2009_09_24/nerd.jpg[/img]


Does that mean that all this crap was just out there floating in space like a bunch rat crap in a swimming pool in NYX, Just waiting for the right moment to be Smooched together like an awkward kiss....

Doesn't seem "kosher" to me....

[Empire]

Listen empire we understand the futility of our existence, some of us just move on. If you want to be knee-deep in nihilism go ahead but some of us don't feel like making smug comments about how other people waste their lives. The only wasted life is that which spends it's life commentating on futility.

What i meant was that there are so many brilliant minds, that they spend so much time looking and analyzing things in distant galaxies, when they could better mankind just by looking at earth.

You see, scientist pride themselves in being smart, intelligent people. But when i see there study, there work, I can't find anything to describe them but wasteful.

They find out new stuff, dealing with galaxies far away. But here on our planet people die every day, yet they make no effort to better mankind. If anything, they try to tear it apart. They attack religions, faith, and the people's heart. What do they gain from this? they give people more despair, I can only guess to lessen their own in a sort of bond-of-knowledge. They literally waste their time disproving religions, while they could be bettering mankind.

It just seems as though many atheistic scientist base their life on disproving religions, they could save lives instead of wasting their knowledge, but no, they have to prove a religion is wrong.

It just seems that for all your knowledge paroxysm, your just being childish with this science.

[NextGen(1)]

What i meant was that there are so many brilliant minds, that they spend so much time looking and analyzing things in distant galaxies, when they could better mankind just by looking at earth.

You see, scientist pride themselves in being smart, intelligent people. But when i see there study, there work, I can't find anything to describe them but wasteful.

They find out new stuff, dealing with galaxies far away. But here on our planet people die every day, yet they make no effort to better mankind. If anything, they try to tear it apart. They attack religions, faith, and the people's heart. What do they gain from this? they give people more despair, I can only guess to lessen their own in a sort of bond-of-knowledge. They literally waste their time disproving religions, while they could be bettering mankind.

It just seems as though many atheistic scientist base their life on disproving religions, they could save lives instead of wasting their knowledge, but no, they have to prove a religion is wrong.

It just seems that for all your knowledge paroxysm, your just being childish with this science.

Well Put.......

[Paroxysm]

The theory of BBT was crap, and it's still crap.

It isn't Fact, That's why it's called a theory.... So why does everyone debate theories, I have a theory that I have superpowers (not really) where are my advocates..... No where.... really....? Why.... Because it is far-fetched, and there is no real proof, just a theory.

So let me get this right, All matter in the universe was one Big Giant load of crap...Who's mass was so great

like this guy...

[img]https://dunndesigns.files.*********.com/2008/10/wm-ss-fat-guy.jpg[/img]

That it exploded , and out of this explosion was spewing matter as if the man above had eaten to many burgers, and that matter began to clump together, (kind of like that time I left the milk out on the counter and it went bed) and that formed stars, and those dead stars ....planets, and eventually came "Higher Life forms " like Paroxysm over here....

For all this matter to come together like that, Would mean it just had to be adrift aimlessly........In ...One....Freaking...Spot....!.....

Actually, I am almost 100% sure it would have not been moving at all, then it would be theoretically possible that they were situated in such a manner that the gravitation effects on all the particles of and all this other crap would be equal to 0

Well..... That means all this gunk would have had to be still.... motionless....not moving at all....., in what we know as an infinite area. Ok....for paroxysm sake, lets just say that is possible.

Where did all this matter come from? We know l you can't create matter, according to this really smart physics type guys/girls who do nothing but consider it.

Like this guy:

[img]https://www.untoldentertainmen*****m/blog/img/2009_09_24/nerd.jpg[/img]


Does that mean that all this crap was just out there floating in space like a bunch rat crap in a swimming pool in NYX, Just waiting for the right moment to be Smooched together like an awkward kiss....

Doesn't seem "kosher" to me....

If anything is post has convinced me you're either a troll or an imbecile, then again those aren't mutually exclusive.

What i meant was that there are so many brilliant minds, that they spend so much time looking and analyzing things in distant galaxies, when they could better mankind just by looking at earth.

You see, scientist pride themselves in being smart, intelligent people. But when i see there study, there work, I can't find anything to describe them but wasteful.

They find out new stuff, dealing with galaxies far away. But here on our planet people die every day, yet they make no effort to better mankind. If anything, they try to tear it apart. They attack religions, faith, and the people's heart. What do they gain from this? they give people more despair, I can only guess to lessen their own in a sort of bond-of-knowledge. They literally waste their time disproving religions, while they could be bettering mankind.

It just seems as though many atheistic scientist base their life on disproving religions, they could save lives instead of wasting their knowledge, but no, they have to prove a religion is wrong.

It just seems that for all your knowledge paroxysm, your just being childish with this science.

Oh but that's where you are wrong. I don't wish to get rid of religious belief because it makes me feel good that I destroyed someones faith, I want to get rid of religious belief because it causes unnecessary harm. Religions skew social issues to near unsolvable lengths. They make making the world a better place much harder. Just to clarify the brunt of my attack isn't on religion necessarily, but irrational paradigms.

[NextGen(1)]

If anything is post has convinced me you're either a troll or an imbecile, then again those aren't mutually exclusive.

It's fact , and it's what's wrong with the BBT.

It's the loop hole, and instead of trying to "disprove it" your retort is to attack my decency as a poster, or an attempt to insult my intelligence.

My whole post had fact, but I was being somewhat sardonic (mocking you)

You base a belief on theory , and when pointed with contradictory theory
You disregard it, I can now safely say, all you have done is shown us your religion, You have done what you claim a creationist, or a religious person does, and you have disregarded scientific possibility to suit your own beliefs....

and that was the point of my last post... Good show though....

Anyone with a philosophical mind would have looked at what I have stated and what is truth in (this case) Science, and determined that there may be another plausible explanation.

Instead of becoming defensive you would have determined it's possibility that maybe nextgen is right, How did all that matter get together in the first place.

:Claps: