Disputing Shadow And Smokes Decision on a Scam Report against me.

[Felix]

Titles pretty clear and I believe that I was made to pay a user for a failed SE forcibly and unjustly.

I have been doing fitbit SEing since 2015, sell pretty much 200-250 Fitbits a month through various sites and employ many SErs. There is a general rule for fitbit SEing and that is that orders that are not processed in 30-60 Minutes are cancelled. However, they may still go processed if there is a delay in fitbits stock or if there is an issue in the fitbits system. The fitbit system queues orders and automatically checks them and matches information to the account owner for example it checks if the order was placed under the same email, with the same name, if the address has been replaced to before, if the address is correct and it also checks if the names are the same on order and account. The name may be changed but thats only if the email is still the same as the original account owner. If you change the email on the account, the order may only be placed under the same name as the account and having a different name on the order than what is on the account itself will result in cancellation because of the system not approving it. I have found that if my orders are successful and I can guarantee it but it doesnt process, its because of an internal issue in fitbit and means all my orders are stuck on received and not just one. I asked a user to do an SE for me, he got the cart link with the name being different on the order than whats on the account from what I remember, the address incorrect and also the SEr did not change the email back on the account to the original which always results in cancellation. Don't believe me, I experimented with this method very recently with @HeroicXPharaoh and I even told him what I was doing before this guy did my SE for me, the order didnt get processed and it cancelled. The issue I have is that the address was wrong, the name was different from what I presume and the email address was different to what the tracker was originally paired with. After I cancelled the order after waiting 2hrs 30 for the order to be processed, I gave it to my other SEr, he did it with the correct address and a working method and it processed after 30mins and my other SEr did another one and it processed too. What fitbits system would do is cancel the order after 2-3 days and then email the seller and say the address is wrong which I doubt they would do since they have so many cancelled orders atm but then if the order was even altered outside the 30-60 mins, it would miss the queue window and be forgotten and cancelled after that aswell. I can guarantee this method is patched and I used it and heroic used to use it and he can confirm it got patched recently since we always share our methods with each other. I believe I was made to pay for a failed order without proof that his orders were actually processing after 2 hours on that day and even the seller refused one of my offers which would have proven my hypothesis showing he is infact lying. I believe that this is unjust because I have not seen proof that his orders that day were not processing after 2 hours which infringes my right as a buyer. He came to me claiming he wanted to work for me and so it is my right to cancel the order if it fails since as a merchant I simply have no time for people who fail orders as he failed one previously.

I also had proof from an MM that the SE was failed and I we experimented with 3 different methods a few days before this SE and I actually used his method for one of them and even told the MM the method I used and it failed and then I used my working method straight after and it worked. That is sufficient evidence from my side but he never issued any and you still sided with the SEr. This is unjust and not the middleman way. Words wouldnt matter in a court of law. I opted for a Higher Up to review the case and Heroic agreed and you guys just denied your colleges decision by going what you guys think. I believe this is also disrespectful to me as I have shown evidence of my theories whilst the seller had shown none to user Shadow and not even Skype Logs from what I saw on the thread and he still took over the thread unnecessarily. I didnt want this and if you just allowed Flengo to look over it then I would have been fine. I stand by what I say and I know I am right because I have all the evidence I need to win this case.

This case is against users: @Shadow and @Smoke and involves @HeroicXPharaoh who someone who works closely with me and can confirm all that I have said above is true and I have not lied.

I am very very angry at you two and it makes my blood boil to see as an EX-Middleman to see you guys being so ignorant at the fact I proved one of my most important points on the thread and you just ignored me for someones words. I see this as a personal matter.

And as for Smoke:

https://www.mpgh.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1298028

[Smoke]

@ @Felix

Oh calling me out directly at the end of your post about my middlemanning skills from someone who got demoted from being an official middleman themself how cute~. As i so directly stated on the scam report in itself to put it in even simpler terms since you don't seem to understand:
You asked him to do the SE>You told him it's too late TWICE while he was in the process of doing it because you seem to believe you're some Fitbit SE'ing God(even though literally 2-3+ people came in saying you're wrong with SE'ing experince including Shadow who some have even more SE'ing experince than yourself)>He actually went back and did it for you and during which you were waiting for it to process you handed it off to someone else and you told him or us in the scam report "Oh if it doesn't process in an hour it fails 100%" which is completely false as some HAVE processed even after that unless you want to bring up your scam report again with people saying it does yet again(again some with even more SE'ing experience than yourself) then you go forward and don't pay the guy even though he did extra work for you with the address changing and change ups.

[HeroicXPharaoh]

I'd like to confirm what's mentioned above, Felix and I have worked on Fitbits for well over 2 months now. We've tested over 5 methods together and in all 5, it's never happened where if the order takes more than an hour to process, it would end up working in the end.

Note : Taking more than 60 minutes to process doesn't necessarily mean the order is a fail, as some customer service reps will place a new order / process the order for you themselves, but it does mean your method is non-working and not reliable

[Felix]

@ @Felix

Oh calling me out directly at the end of your post how cute. As i so directly stated on the scam report in itself to put it in even simpler terms since you don't seem to understand:
You asked him to do the SE>You told him it's too late TWICE while he was in the process of doing it because you seem to believe you're some Fitbit SE'ing God(even though literally 2-3 people came in saying you're wrong with SE'ing experince including Shadow who some have even more SE'ing experince than yourself)>He actually went back and did it for you and we did you told him "Oh if it doesn't process in an hour it fails" which is completely false as some have processed even after that unless you want to bring up your scam report again with people saying it does yet again then you go forward and don't pay the guy even though he did extra work for you with the address changing and all because you handed it off to someone else without even prior notice.

When he redid it, he spent an extra day or two just to get it redone and I told him not to redo it because i was getting my other SEr to do it who has 100% success. He redid it even though I said not to do it which I showed in the proof. Smoke, you need to listen to me and I completely understand it can still process after a day in VERY RARE circumstances but the fact of the matter is I proved to heroic before this SE took place with this method that the method he was using was not working whilst we were experimenting and he can vouch on this. Plus, the address was wrong on the order and I cancelled it after waiting 2.5 Hours which is an obvious sign that its not going to process. FURTHERMORE, those hooligans that claimed I was a liar had no idea what method he used or didnt account the fact the address on the order was wrong. Any ser can claim that but I proved his method wasnt working before with heroic and heroic himself had tried that method before and it got patched so therefore it was failed. His effort doesn't matter, The law shows no exceptions. If youre going by the order he did after I said not to do it, surely I could do 10 orders to your house without your permission and you would then have to be obliged to pay??? Oh and also Im glad you think of my dispute as cute, its not a direct by the way its part of the dispute. Im glad you think of my dispute as cute which is disrespectful to me whilst I cannot answer back to offend you because that would of course lead to me being banned. Im glad this is what you think of users below you who have a genuine reason to dispute against you whilst you can sit there claiming my report is cute because I dont have the same amount of power as you do. Goes to show.

[Smoke]

When he redid it, he spent an extra day or two just to get it redone and I told him not to redo it because i was getting my other SEr to do it who has 100% success. He redid it even though I said not to do it which I showed in the proof. Smoke, you need to listen to me and I completely understand it can still process after a day in VERY RARE circumstances but the fact of the matter is I proved to heroic before this SE took place with this method that the method he was using was not working whilst we were experimenting and he can vouch on this. Plus, the address was wrong on the order and I cancelled it after waiting 2.5 Hours which is an obvious sign that its not going to process. FURTHERMORE, those hooligans that claimed I was a liar had no idea what method he used or didnt account the fact the address on the order was wrong. Any ser can claim that but I proved his method wasnt working before with heroic and heroic himself had tried that method before and it got patched so therefore it was failed.

The fact of the matter is that you don't know if it was going to be shipped (@Ragetrail even said he re-spoke with the agent saying everything was being processed correctly) because YOU cancelled it(you literally even tried lying about not cancelling it on the Skype conversation as well lol) and after admitting to cancelling it you went on some power trip about "oh i did fitbit SE'ing for 2 years i know everything inside and out" even though the user showed you that it's processed after 2 hours before and user's on the scam report in itself saying that's not true.

The refund stays in my book, it was your mistake for not seeing things through to the end and being impatient by handing it off without even prior notice till after he did all the work.

[Felix]

The fact of the matter is that you don't know if it was going to be shipped (@Ragetrail even said he re-spoke with the agent saying everything was being processed correctly) because YOU cancelled it(you literally even tried lying about not cancelling it on the Skype conversation as well lol) and after admitting to cancelling it you went on some power trip about "oh i did fitbit SE'ing for 2 years i know everything inside and out" even though the user showed you that it's processed after 2 hours before and user's on the scam report in itself saying that's not true.

The refund stays in my book, it was your mistake for not seeing things through to the end and being impatient by handing it off without even prior notice till after he did all the work.

The reps cannot tell if the methods not working etc thats internal, they can only see whats wrong with the address by looking at it and seeing the format. I've had 2 years of experience with fitbit and I myself know this because Ive contacted fitbit agents before asking about address etc when trying out new methods that dont work basically and they always say its fine because they dont have any power basically to look internally. Why wait 2-3 days for an order to be cancelled when I know 100% the order is going to be cancelled. If its not processed by 60mins on days in the Uk where everyone elses orders are processing on time then there is clearly something wrong. I even asked him for his method after practically or before I cant remember and he told me the exact same method that got patched recently which I did with heroic and it didnt work so thats how I 100% knew and even told him that it wouldnt work. Why would I be patient when I am 100% certain its a failed order and even verified after when he told me his method. It wasnt my intention to come out like i was lying but I could tell this guy was a salty person and didnt really want him to work for me after these failed 2 tries of SEing and so I was put on the spot but told him after which matters most. There was no delays that day on orders, the address wrong and he was using a method that I tried like 2 days before or something and verified with heroic that it wasnt working and he himself too. The order also didnt process in 60 minutes which means its a cancellation definitely unless there is a delay in the system which the agent couldve stated because they would notice it too.

And why you calling me out saying I got demoted for being a "bad middleman", I got demoted under carding allegations fyi.
Bad middlemaning is asking a member to refund a scammer which is stupid because its basically like saying, "here sir you scammed our members $60 im very sorry about our boy felix who took your $30 and ill make sure hes banned if he doesnt refund you in 24 hours mr scammer because it was wrong of him to purposely go out of his way to scam you even though you decided to scam our members out of their good hard earned money."

[Smoke]

The reps cannot tell if the methods not working etc thats internal, they can only see whats wrong with the address by looking at it and seeing the format. I've had 2 years of experience with fitbit and I myself know this because Ive contacted fitbit agents before asking about address etc when trying out new methods that dont work basically and they always say its fine because they dont have any power basically to look internally. Why wait 2-3 days for an order to be cancelled when I know 100% the order is going to be cancelled. If its not processed by 60mins on days in the Uk where everyone elses orders are processing on time then there is clearly something wrong. I even asked him for his method after practically or before I cant remember and he told me the exact same method that got patched recently which I did with heroic and it didnt work so thats how I 100% knew and even told him that it wouldnt work. Why would I be patient when I am 100% certain its a failed order and even verified after when he told me his method. It wasnt my intention to come out like i was lying but I could tell this guy was a salty person and didnt really want him to work for me after these failed 2 tries of SEing and so I was put on the spot but told him after which matters most. There was no delays that day on orders, the address wrong and he was using a method that I tried like 2 days before or something and verified with heroic that it wasnt working and he himself too. The order also didnt process in 60 minutes which means its a cancellation definitely unless there is a delay in the system which the agent couldve stated because they would notice it too.

And why you calling me out saying I got demoted for being a "bad middleman", I got demoted under carding allegations fyi.
Bad middlemaning is asking a member to refund a scammer which is stupid because its basically like saying, "here sir you scammed our members $60 im very sorry about our boy felix who took your $30 and ill make sure hes banned if he doesnt refund you in 24 hours mr scammer because it was wrong of him to purposely go out of his way to scam you even though you decided to scam our members out of their good hard earned money."

You don't know 100% that's the whole point literally everyone on your thread who posted(aside from @Heroic) is trying to tell you, but you don't seem to understand.
We also won't know about his order because you took it up on yourself to "cancel it" because you're some fitbit guru now or something. Also, yes yes someone who got demoted for not following the marketplace rules themselves will tell me how to run the marketplace quality post sir but that's an off topic issue you seem to have with me which is somewhat laughable.

Regardless, everything's been stated here the Global moderators will decide in which the answer is abundantly clear.
@Hero @Flengo @Psychotic

[Felix]

You don't know 100% that's the whole point literally everyone on your thread who posted(aside from @Heroic) is trying to tell you, but you don't seem to understand.
We also won't know about his order because you took it up on yourself to "cancel it" because you're some fitbit guru now or something. Also, yes yes someone who got demoted for not following the marketplace rules themselves will tell me how to run the marketplace quality post sir but that's an off topic issue you seem to have with me which is somewhat laughable.

Regardless, everything's been stated here the Global moderators will decide in which the answer is abundantly clear.
@Hero @Flengo @Psychotic

Youre being vague because those other people have not yet tested the method or previously used the same method as OP like me and Heroic have and plus those users were right in what they said but his method is patched and the address was also wrong. It didnt process in 2.5 hours which is over his 2 hours he claimed he had once happen to him. No delay in fitbit system, dead method and my other guys order processed in 30 mins. Gave him enough time for the order to process and it didnt process in 2.5x the time it shouldve done in so whats the difference in waiting 2-3 days for it to cancel when i could do it now and save time. I am a fitbit guru i have tons of experience in fitbit so I know the ins and out of the whole SEing process. Also, I said "allegations" too and dave himself said I was "suspicious" not "FELIX UR A CARDER GTFO". Learn ur facts and my fact is that you asked me to refund a scammer and forced me to pay for a failed SE along with ur pal Shadow. 2 wrong decisions. One more thing, some people hate on me too and people have their opinions which is bias and s they will choose a side which is the reason why it's against the rules to post on scam reports and staff disputes if you are not staff or involved. The user had no relevance since he just stated what I already know and that is some orders may go processed after a day or so but the fact is many SEr and me and Heroic tried out the method and noticed it got patched a while back since a lot of ppl had to change method. You're laying your decision on irrelevant users which further suggests unprofessionalism and you're calling me out like I don't know the MP rules. You employed users who aren't relevant in your decision against me which is totally unfair considering if I had done the same thing you probably would've interacted the user and deleted their post. I even have one of your Middlemen who I know is very honest and serious when it gets to the point where he had to be that has just said that the order was failed and you're still going against me. All I want and the reason why you guys are trusted with the responsibility to be the backbone of MPGH is to protect the users and what I'm seei here is someone who is too scared to admit their mistake or do the right thing which is all I want. Honesty. Also I thought in your eyes little members like me are just "cute" to you so why employ their opinions now?


Anyways Ill leave the rest to the GMs its up to them and all my time could've been saved if you just did this in the first place like I asked for in the thread but I guess even that was too much to ask for according to Shadow.

[Gaydow]

Youre being vague because those other people have not yet tested the method or previously used the same method as OP like me and Heroic have and plus those users were right in what they said but his method is patched and the address was also wrong. It didnt process in 2.5 hours which is over his 2 hours he claimed he had once happen to him. No delay in fitbit system, dead method and my other guys order processed in 30 mins. Gave him enough time for the order to process and it didnt process in 2.5x the time it shouldve done in so whats the difference in waiting 2-3 days for it to cancel when i could do it now and save time. I am a fitbit guru i have tons of experience in fitbit so I know the ins and out of the whole SEing process. Also, I said "allegations" too and dave himself said I was "suspicious" not "FELIX UR A CARDER GTFO". Learn ur facts and my fact is that you asked me to refund a scammer and forced me to pay for a failed SE along with ur pal Shadow. 2 wrong decisions. One more thing, some people hate on me too and people have their opinions which is bias and s they will choose a side which is the reason why it's against the rules to post on scam reports and staff disputes if you are not staff or involved. The user had no relevance since he just stated what I already know and that is some orders may go processed after a day or so but the fact is many SEr and me and Heroic tried out the method and noticed it got patched a while back since a lot of ppl had to change method. You're laying your decision on irrelevant users which further suggests unprofessionalism and you're calling me out like I don't know the MP rules. You employed users who aren't relevant in your decision against me which is totally unfair considering if I had done the same thing you probably would've interacted the user and deleted their post. I even have one of your Middlemen who I know is very honest and serious when it gets to the point where he had to be that has just said that the order was failed and you're still going against me. All I want and the reason why you guys are trusted with the responsibility to be the backbone of MPGH is to protect the users and what I'm seei here is someone who is too scared to admit their mistake or do the right thing which is all I want. Honesty. Also I thought in your eyes little members like me are just "cute" to you so why employ their opinions now?


Anyways Ill leave the rest to the GMs its up to them and all my time could've been saved if you just did this in the first place like I asked for in the thread but I guess even that was too much to ask for according to Shadow.

Plain and simple i'll give you an answer in steps because you seem too retarded to understand.

1) You asked for a SE to be done.
2) The guy did it and it took over 2 hours to process over the usual 30 minutes.
3) You had a deadline but didn't tell the guy, the order wasn't cancelled just took longer than 30 minutes. When it takes longer than 30-60 minutes it's USUALLY cancelled. In this case it was not.

This wasn't the other user's fault. You had a deadline, you waited until last minute to get a SE done which was an anomaly and took longer to process. You couldn't wait that long so you went ahead and got someone to SE it and till then the other SE had also completed.

If you don't want shitty results from a shitty SEr don't get your shit SEd from them. The point is he got the SE done PERIOD. Doesn't matter how he got it done. Take some fucking responsibility and stop blaming us for doing our jobs. You don't hire someone who's a trashy worker over someone who's much better, even though they both get the job done.

- - - Updated - - -

All I want and the reason why you guys are trusted with the responsibility to be the backbone of MPGH is to protect the users and what I'm seei here is someone who is too scared to admit their mistake or do the right thing which is all I want.

@Felix

You want to elaborate and summarize up what the mistake was without some sorry ass paragraph as to why we should feel sorry for you? Also you're right, we are trusted with the responsibility to be the backbone of MPGH to protect it. That's what we do. If you feel otherwise you can take it straight to Dave. I do my best to keep reports fair and unbiased. You can't even accept responsibility that it was your mistake and you want others to accept their mistakes? Hypocrisy.

[[MPGH]Hero]

So here's my tl;dr from what I've been reading. Let's just keep it simple.

- You hired sm1 to do an SE for you.
- That sm1 was doing the SE, but in this rare circumstance, this process took a bit longer than usual.
- Because it took longer, you hired someone else to do an SE for you.
- Now there's some disagreement.

Please confirm and add details more details onto this if you need to @Felix. Only want to hear from you btw. No one else should reply to this post.

[Felix]

So here's my tl;dr from what I've been reading. Let's just keep it simple.

- You hired sm1 to do an SE for you.
- That sm1 was doing the SE, but in this rare circumstance, this process took a bit longer than usual.
- Because it took longer, you hired someone else to do an SE for you.
- Now there's some disagreement.

Please confirm and add details more details onto this if you need to @Felix. Only want to hear from you btw. No one else should reply to this post.

I had a thread up asking for SErs, he came to me, failed first order to address so I gave that order to someone else since he failed and didnt get back to me on time, then he came back a day or two later saying he got the form link and so I gave him an address in format. He put the address wrong by putting street line 2 in street line 1. He sent me link to order like more than 2 hours before he said the order was placed. I see address is wrong and ask him how long ago he got this and he said like 2 hours ago and I was thinking wow he done flunked it again because he failed the first one too and that fortnight a lot of people came to me in which they failed orders for me too and 1 of the guys was using his exact method aswell and he realised he failed. I cancelled the order because I knew he failed it if it didnt process in 2 hours and fitbit werent having internal issues or stock issue since it said on order "in stock". I told him not to redo I then asked him simple questions like did he change email, did he change it back, was order placed under same name as on account and basically he admitted to using the same method another SEr tried to use for me and me and heroic also tested this method after to see if it was really patched just like another common one. What you have to understand here is Hero that me and Heroic realised that the two most common methods which was his and another one which Im not going to name but Heroic knows suddenly got patched a few days before he did this SE for me and so after I cancelled and found out his method I was like yup thats patched and even told him why the order got cancelled. Address was wrong and also method was patched which means that it would've made no difference in cancelling then or waiting for it to be cancelled in a day or two. I completely understand what Shadow is saying but its irrelevant because I 100% know that order wouldve been cancelled due to the method as he told me the method he used and me and Heroic tried that a few days before this SE guy did it for me.

[RageTrail]

Had to reply to this and let you know that this guy is full of bullshit. Hero I uploaded the video of our full chat and in that you can clearly see what happened.
As you know that nowadays most of the time FitBit ask for the device to be sent back. So the first time I did they asked for device back and I told that to Felix instantly and he told me try later. So the next day itself I got back to it and when they sent me the form for replacement Felix told me that the order I was supposed to be done was done by some other dude and he give me a different order to do with different name and address. So I filled out the form exactly in the way and when I got the order status I gave to Felix and he was like address was wrong. Then I told him that both the streets are there in the address so it’s not wrong. So he just told that it’s been 2 hours. And he was like no it’s definately cancelled and he went and cancelled the order. So I contacted live chat and asked them what’s wrong with the order and they said That from their side there was nothing wrong and the order was cancelled because Felix cancelled it. So they sent me another form but Felix is like no I told someone else to do it and he then wanted me to do at a an another address this time. I told him that I was doing at sams address because it’s not my fault that he got impatient and cancelled. So I comitibef and the order got processed and the Felix’s customer accepted the Fitbit aswell. Also Felix lied that it was his address and not his customers address and then blamed me that I was threating him to leak the address, when I fact Felix just gave out the address completely. This dude is full of lies. He even says that he wasn’t a carder when in fact he was boasting to me that he MPGH Middleman But was demoted because he was a really good carder.
And you say you and Heroic were testing methods and realized before itself that more then 30-60mins means cancelled then why does Heroic tell his customers to wait 24hours? Probably because he also thinks it could get processed.

[Felix]

Had to reply to this and let you know that this guy is full of bullshit. Hero I uploaded the video of our full chat and in that you can clearly see what happened.
As you know that nowadays most of the time FitBit ask for the device to be sent back. So the first time I did they asked for device back and I told that to Felix instantly and he told me try later. So the next day itself I got back to it and when they sent me the form for replacement Felix told me that the order I was supposed to be done was done by some other dude and he give me a different order to do with different name and address. So I filled out the form exactly in the way and when I got the order status I gave to Felix and he was like address was wrong. Then I told him that both the streets are there in the address so it’s not wrong. So he just told that it’s been 2 hours. And he was like no it’s definately cancelled and he went and cancelled the order. So I contacted live chat and asked them what’s wrong with the order and they said That from their side there was nothing wrong and the order was cancelled because Felix cancelled it. So they sent me another form but Felix is like no I told someone else to do it and he then wanted me to do at a an another address this time. I told him that I was doing at sams address because it’s not my fault that he got impatient and cancelled. So I comitibef and the order got processed and the Felix’s customer accepted the Fitbit aswell. Also Felix lied that it was his address and not his customers address and then blamed me that I was threating him to leak the address, when I fact Felix just gave out the address completely. This dude is full of lies. He even says that he wasn’t a carder when in fact he was boasting to me that he MPGH Middleman But was demoted because he was a really good carder.
And you say you and Heroic were testing methods and realized before itself that more then 30-60mins means cancelled then why does Heroic tell his customers to wait 24hours? Probably because he also thinks it could get processed.

You told me your method and its the exact same one as me and Heroic did a while back and didnt work aswell as another SEr whos order failed. I gave you the address in format street 1: street 2: etc and you didnt put a street 2 clearly which I asked for which meant the address was wrong aswell as your method. Please listen to Hero and stop coming on here calling me a liar. Dispute doesnt regard you as of yet.

[RageTrail]

You told me your method and its the exact same one as me and Heroic did a while back and didnt work aswell as another SEr whos order failed. I gave you the address in format street 1: street 2: etc and you didnt put a street 2 clearly which I asked for which meant the address was wrong aswell as your method. Please listen to Hero and stop coming on here calling me a liar. Dispute doesnt regard you as of yet.

It actually does regard me since you’re just trying to lie and not pointing out what you did. I told you my method and you knew it wasn’t working still you told me to do it?

[Felix]

It actually does regard me since you’re just trying to lie and not pointing out what you did. I told you my method and you knew it wasn’t working still you told me to do it?

You told me ur method after the order was placed and didnt process and plus as soon as u placed it I pointed out the address was wrong showing im not lying. Now please wait until Hero gets back and stop commenting stupid things because I dont want to stain my reputation stooping down to your levels by insulting me and calling me a carder which is irrelevant. Havent carded for over a year.