the future of the game

[aqwplayer]

to be honest now i'm getting pretty sick of typing so i'll try and keep it brief.

i feel like i continually say what i don't like (which i do) but i don't talk about stuff i did like, so in terms of recent events, i liked lord of order and TLAPD quite a bit. yeah my previous criticisms still apply about just using/re-using old stuff (although LOO itself was obviously new and TLAPD had some pretty decent miscs in my opinion). i also appreciate that they're increasing the level cap and will be introducing a new class soon. having said that, there's still a lot that could be improved upon (including what i'm about to talk about). this particular point mainly discusses art color/style. it can be argued that some of this boils down to personal preference. if you're not interested in that, there's no point in reading any further

1) black friday/cyber monday rares chest - i like some of the weapons in here but i find some of the items questionable. for example, consider the NSOD (necrotic sword of doom) and BBOA (burning blade of abezeth) reskins. the BBOA one at least looks decent so i can understand buying that but the NSOD one? who in their right mind would buy that? i think ae has a bit of a misunderstanding here. the reason most people use NSOD or BBOA is not necessarily because they like them but because there are not really many other ways, if any, to receive such large all-damage boosts. for example, there's still no way to carry over the all-damage boosts from weapons we've already got while actually using a different weapon. this is despite us being able to wear a particular class but have an armor over it. aren't those two things basically the same concept? if one of them has already been implemented (armor over class), would it really be that horrifying to release the weapon equivalent? or if not that, because it's probably a lot more complicated than it sounds, then shouldn't we at least have a way to enhance our items with said boosts? given that a lot of people buy items that they like the look of, it sucks that when it comes down to it, we have no choice but to not use the items we like and to use these weapons instead because otherwise we just can't do enough damage. so, basically, it's out of necessity, not choice...

also, let's take a look at items in the black friday rares chest like "dark rock warrior" (1,200 ACs). is there anyone who actually thinks this is a high enough quality item to be in this chest, let alone worth that many ACs? i understand that the theme is black friday but i do not think that means that items with no definition or clarity should be accepted into the shop. and this isn't the only item like this either. take a look at the "onyx naval commander" (1,100 ACs). again, i get that "black friday" is the theme and that the name of the item has "naval commander" in it, but is this really what anyone would call a quality armor? it's literally just all black. you basically can't see any amount of detail in it at all. if i were trying to do an all-black shadow cosplay or something, then i might consider it but there are free ways to do that ("oblivion of revontheus"/"black j5"), far more easily. honestly this is just low effort at this point.

if you take a look at the armors from the pirate collection chest from TLAPD (no longer accessible now unless you have the chest or look it up online), a lot of them are pretty alright but certain ones have the exact same problem i've been describing, such as: "underworld pirate caster" (1000 ACs), "13th naval commander" (1100), "13th pirate captain" (900) and "abyssal flame naval commander" (1100). and then i ask the same question. are these worth the ACs? of course that's up to the individual to decide but i certainly don't think so. items that look good do so not because of their name, but because of what the item actually looks like. slapping the words "naval commander" onto anything you can think of doesn't somehow automatically make an item look good.

honestly, it just feels like a cop out. can't be bothered to design something? just make it really dark and throw it in the chest at a large price so you can say that the player is saving more by buying the whole chest instead of the items individually. want to argue that it's black friday so it makes sense? in my opinion that still doesn't explain it but even if it did, how can you explain the items i mentioned from the pirate collection chest? it definitely wasn't black friday then, right? what i don't get is why they wouldn't want to give the playerbase higher quality items that they actually want to spend ACs on. collectors might buy anything just for the sake of it (can't say i understand that especially given most of the items i just talked about) but for more normal users, it's individual items that i am drawn or not drawn to, not entire chests.

now lets look at the black friday shop (not the rares one, just the normal) - some of the armors are still ok, like "black dragonslayer" and "black necromancer". but then you find AAS (abyssal angel's shadow). have you ever seen a poorer excuse for a class art design than this? the skills look alright but the class itself is literally just all black with only the eyes having color and even that is barely visible during actual gameplay at max settings. the original class itself honestly isn't that much better looking either. i guess at least you get a class out of your 2000 ACs but is that really even worth it given that it has a hard time keeping up with the free, also seasonal, vampire lord? personally? i don't think so

obviously there are more examples. i can't reasonably address all of them so i just chose recent ones. as for a solution to this? i can't say i know. maybe just to have higher standards for what is let into production? i understand that deadlines exist and that drawing isn't easy and that no matter how well you can draw (or re-color) (or do anything for that matter), it's impossible to be universally liked. but i still can't think of anything that can really justify this.

as for "if you don't like it, just don't buy it", that is of course true. regardless, i felt like i had to address this in at least some way.

[Bethnigga]

You're completely missing the point that botters have a different view of the game. As a botter when you seek an item or class, it's not a matter of how, it's a matter of when. Many botters get NSoD in about 2 months running the bot 24/7. The thing is, new players don't know much about botting. They are trying to understand how the game works. When they hear about the farming time for NSoD as a non-mem, they are surprised how much effort you have to put in a flash game (assuming they don't know that most people bot). To many new players, this is intriguing and they definitely want to step up for the challenge. As far as the future of the game is concerned, I think it's going well. The server rewrite only applies to AQ2D:Mobile and I'm glad that we are getting a mobile version. At least I can instantly help someone without having to go switch my pc on. And it seems that you're concerned whether botting programs will work in the future or not. Rest assured, for the cheaters have bigger and better brains than the creators of the game. I won't be surprised if someone comes up with a new botting program after their mobile app is released. AQLite is not killing the game. Even the "legit" players use it because they find it useful. Seeing you complain about some classes doesn't surprise me. Many people think the same. But have you ever wondered what would happen if all the classes were polished and perfected? People would no longer want to farm endgame classes. You see, each class is unique (not talking about the reskins) and has it's own purpose. For e.g. LBMA has S tier in both 1v1 and 8v8 but you can't expect it to be good at farming and soloing. If they made a class that has no flaws, the game would die. People always want something better and that's a part of the game. Spending money in this game is a choice; no one is making you do it. Also, nagging about dailies is pathetic. When I heard LoO was obtainable through dailies I was really happy because killing monsters and doing quests repeatedly is pretty boring and dailies remind you that you need to rest and be busy with other important things in real life. Bringing IoDA in this game is the best business plan that they could come up with. I say let them make those whalers pay more and more. However, I don't like the fact that they use that money for AQ3D (which is pure BS). Your last statement in the second page is pretty weird. Why should you even care about what some random strangers think of you? You have just stated your opinion and I suggest you don't give a fuck to what those people say. Also, I'm 99% sure that you will keep playing this game, no matter what. You know the reason why. The last thing I'd like to add is that the game is all about classes (and their mechanics) and boosted items. Idgaf about 10K ACs chests, events and rare items.

[aqwplayer]

1) again, i'm not advocating for all classes to be godlike. i'm saying some classes should at least be ok at something. the phenomenon of powercreep is very real in this game and the amount of classes left behind that are good at absolutely nothing (especially paid ones) is pretty large.

2) any sane person would look at NSOD's requirements and walk away, especially non-mem non-botters.

3) i absolutely love aqlite. if you read the thread, you'll notice i only ever praise 133spider for doing the job ae failed to do. and he did it all for free. i would never EVER disrespect someone who did so much for the community.

4) your faith that someone will immediately step up to create a mobile game cheat is misplaced. there is always an initial lag before real cheats are produced (or at least made public) and in that time, people will leave. for example, in the massive ban that happened a while ago, an enormous amount of the botting population left. it's pretty much just history at this point. if you think people are going to patiently stick around during an uncertain transition in which they will possibly not be able to bot, then we'll just have to disagree.

5) you farmed LOO legit. non-sarcastically, congratulations. but, most people don't farm harder grinds like VHL, NSOD, AFDL or LR or maybe even easier grinds like BLOD or juggernaut items legit. in fact, if we really want to go there, most people can't even farm arcangrove reputation legitimately let alone level up on their own anymore. this isn't really a negative thing or a slight on anyone, it's just kind of a fact. it's easy for anyone to talk and say they will "just farm legit" if the game is changed to mobile but it's really not that easy to do in practice.

6) the server rewrite WAS initially for aqw itself. it's been over at least 95% "complete", if not higher, for literally years according to alina. at some point, they just stopped mentioning it. now, they're pretty much pretending that aq2d:mobile WAS the rewrite (which it wasn't) and unfortunately it seems like some users actually believe that to be the case. combating and bringing attention to such misinformation and outright mistreatment and disrespect by ae is the exact reason this thread exists.

7) i "continue playing" the game in that in i check in every so often, yes. i'm not sure you can blame me for coming back to see what's up and hoping that they've learned their lesson and actually started caring about the average consumer a bit more. unfortunately though, like i've said earlier in the thread, it seems like they haven't.

8) you didn't really mention this but this needs to be said anyways. ae is making the very amateur mistake (which is ok because we all make mistakes, it is whether and how we own up to them that counts), of looking at a gigantic market (mobile game revenue - about $60 billion in 2018 according to some statistics), and thinking "oh! wow! they make so much! if only we could capture even less than 1% of that market! then we'd be filthy rich!". and technically speaking... they're right... lol. but again, actually doing so is not so easy in practice. what they are doing right now (and have been doing for a while) is bleeding dry and letting go of what they currently have (aqw) in search of magical promises of wealth (aq3d, aq2d:mobile) that may never actually pan out. in particular, the quote i am thinking of is: "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". another relevant idiom is "killing the golden goose", where aqw's playerbase is the golden goose in question. how long have people waited for ae to change their tune and actually respond to user criticism? how patient can they really expect people to be? when their strategy eventually, finally backfires on them, i must say i will find it pretty amusing although to be honest, they'll probably just start another kickstarter...

[Bethnigga]

I can totally agree with your point 8. AQW is indeed their golden goose. Speaking of farming endgame classes and boosts (I didn't even bother seeing AFDL because CoA is more relevant and easier to farm, SSG helm is just for 100 ACs with the same boost and BBoA does a pretty good job unless you want to pummel those poor monsters with multiplied boosts :P), most people have successfully botted for them and now have nothing else to do. The people who will be suffering/regretting are the ones who said "Nah, it's too time consuming, gonna bot for it later." I believe most of the botters have endgame classes and boosts and they don't have to worry about the future of botting. AE makes those endgame quests keeping bots in their minds and I hope they will make future farming, in the absence of "working" botting programs, less time consuming (or better for me if they make them obtainable through dailies). So, even when there will be no updated botting program, the people who already got those items/ classes won't have any problems whatsoever. The newcomers will eventually buy CCM variants/IC and MoM (tbh the plushies make good gifts for kids) and this means more money for AE. One interesting thing done by AE is they made a class that requires you to use some of your grey matter - I'm talking about CCM (Transient). Technically, you can get really creative with it and have fun even though you have to pay for it. We all pay for having fun in real life, don't we? So, why not pay (just 20 bucks) for having fun in games? If they keep making classes like CCM, people will be more attracted towards the game. For AE it'll be a win-win situation. The reason they have not being making "the absolutely good for nothing" classes better is because the average player doesn't buy them. Only collectors, who want to flex them, are bothered with such classes. If someone wanted to pay for PvE in this game, they would get IC, IT and VL in Mogloween and be done with the game. There is no need for buying useless classes if they are not collectors. I don't blame you for hopping in the game once in a while. Why would I? It's something my friends and I do often (when new classes or boost items are released). Juggy items are old and have no practical use except the unstable weapons (not talking about the ungodlies) for PvP (which is rubbish and pointless unless you're a fan of Non-OP PvP like me) and people won't have any problem while farming them legit even in the mobile version. Unlike botters, some people like to take their time and farm for items in the legit way. I have met many people who do this. People don't need VHL for PvE because they can learn to use DMN the proper way and achieve similar DPS (you may check this out: https://www.reddi*****m/r/AQW/comment..._overlord_140/). Even though DMN doesn't have SS tier survivability it can still solo a lot of bosses. They won't include the server rewrite for AQW:Web and most people wouldn't worry about that because 133spider has done it for free. They feel that giving server rewrite for the web version is a sheer waste of money and of course, they believe the mobile version would be more grossing. I love 133spider for making AQLite and still updating it even though he is a college kid and I have immense respect for him. AE has never learned to take constructive criticism and my best guess is they never will. All we can do is hope for the best and wait for they won't pay heed to our useful feedback and do whatever they want to make money (which is fine). However, they have made some classes that I enjoy using very much and they certainly have my accolades for that.