Would you kneel during the national anthem?

[Charion]

Alright, let's say for a second that black people are somehow made felt unwelcome/safe in the US. Other than kneeling, plus tell me a solution.

Solution would be stop killing black peoples based of their fucking color? "Somehow" They fucking are right now, no wonder why there have been these dumb protests going around how Black Lives Matter

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Alright, I feel more or less convinced by that argument.

So to summarize the points you've been trying to make in this thread to me:

BLM and other groups and movements aiming to prevent police brutality have been ineffective and that is primarily because they entirely see their issue through one lens, "we must hold police accountable for their actions", which isn't a bad thing to do but it avoids the fact that their is an extreme disparity in crime from blacks compared to other Americans which would suggest that the police being far more likely to kill blacks is an inevitability. This would make BLM the equivalent of someone trying to fix an oil leak in a car by putting a bandage over the hole instead of welding the hold shut or getting a new gas tank. This extreme crime disparity would suggest a cultural or systemic problem facing black people in the U.S in recent history.

Is that what you think I should take away from what you've been trying to say?

Not every black individual is going to nip money off of someone else because they are poor or whatever the reasoning's really are,
therefore, murdering a totally innocent black person or anyone in this matter is a wrong doing, and I do not care what living force you are, be that a cop, FBI, army or whatever, it doesn't make it right to kill random ass person because they are black, police brutality as far as I know has and always been happening in the states, because people are somewhat retarded and find a dumb ass reason to kill anyone of color if they want to, police bends the rules however they fucking want.

[[MPGH]Cursed]

Once again everyone in this thread are clowns if that makes it more clear. None of you are black but down talk the whole “movement” because you don’t want to see the actual point of the protest you just want to talk out of your asses. The veteran who told him to kneel was spot on because it got all your attention because we know how warmongering America is. If you don’t agree they’ll try and hurt you and it’s honestly sad. Instead of talking down on the protest find out what the protest is about and try and fix the problem if you want people to “respect the flag” instead of shamming the people who don’t even feel welcomed/safe in the country help fix their problems

Oh yea I forgot black people are not welcomed to feel safe in America... Oh wait... That's why black Kaepernick was adopted by a white family and was spoiled. Spoiled so much he'll kneel down because America is a terrible racist country. Haha, I love when black people pull the victim card about this shit. But in reality, black people can do anything white people can do if they apply themselves. But rather the system is shit and black people never catch a break so we must protest the American flag when racial inequality has been at its all time low ever. Been to school with all kinds of people and the ones who truly pass are the ones that apply themselves. But the ones that don't will either end up in a trailer park or the ghetto complaining about how shitty and unfair this country is. I guess when things truly do get better, there will always be those who try and divide us even without just cause. Thank you Kaepernick for being a spoiled little brat who even acts like a spoiled little brat on field when the national anthem of the country that made him so spoiled is being sung. Would understand if the message if it was from 50 fucking years ago, but not in this day in age. I like how people say it's not disrespectful when most Americans stand to remember those before them who have made the ultimate sacrifice in Americas wars.

Just to clarify, I encourage their exercise to free speech... But not their exercise of totally retarded actions of kneeling down and acting like this is 1950 America. Sorry if you've failed in life these past years... But it's not the white man bringing you down this time. kek

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.’

That's what people are kneeling for... Fantastic kek of acting like he's a hero. YOU ARE NOT MLK. MLK WAS A GREAT MAN WHO HAD REAL INJUSTICES WITH THIS COUNTRY AND CHANGED IT FOR THE BETTER. Kaepershit is just trying to divide more, with shit narratives. Wish one of these BRAVE football players would come out about black on black crime and how we need to lower it... But NOPE. Statistics that show there's a much bigger problem with black on black crime vs anything else will not be shown at all. GG Kaepershit.

[Royce]

Cursed I’m not even gonna read that whole thing because once again one of you ignorant mofos miss the main point. Kaepernick is using his platform to speak for people who aren’t heard. Do your fucking research you undercover racist fuck

Once again I didn’t read your racist rant because nothing you said had relevance to what I said lol

[[MPGH]Cursed]

Cursed I’m not even gonna read that whole thing because once again one of you ignorant mofos miss the main point. Kaepernick is using his platform to speak for people who aren’t heard. Do your fucking research you undercover racist fuck

Once again I didn’t read your racist rant because nothing you said had relevance to what I said lol

10/10 best shut down... KAepernick is using his platform to speak for those who aren't heard? lmao... That's why he needs to bring up black on black crime as it's the fucking highest. But it doesn't support the America is racist agenda, so it will not come out. GEEKED


EDIT: I'm racist because I think everyone in America is equal and have the same opportunity as everyone else. I just don't think that a spoiled brat protesting something that isn't a problem is just fucking retarded. Call me racist though, just as you'll call my black friends an uncle tom.

[Royce]

10/10 best shut down...

Lmaooooo racist fuck. Don’t try and delete what you originally said that’s why it’s not worth arguing with you

Edit: original comment by this racist fuck

“10/10 best shut down..... Oh wait.... You have to be able to read to shut me down. rip”

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10/10 best shut down... KAepernick is using his platform to speak for those who aren't heard? lmao... That's why he needs to bring up black on black crime as it's the fucking highest. But it doesn't support the America is racist agenda, so it will not come out. GEEKED


EDIT: I'm racist because I think everyone in America is equal and have the same opportunity as everyone else. I just don't think that a spoiled brat protesting something that isn't a problem is just fucking retarded. Call me racist though, just as you'll call my black friends an uncle tom.

You most likely grew up around straight white People with the exception of other few races around you. You are clueless you can’t talk on something you never been around. Nobody would start a protest without a reason. I’m assuming you also think the white nationalist protesting are spoiled brats too? Because what is their point ?

[[MPGH]Cursed]

Lmaooooo racist fuck. Don’t try and delete what you originally said that’s why it’s not worth arguing with you

Edit: original comment by this racist fuck

“10/10 best shut down..... Oh wait.... You have to be able to read to shut me down. rip”

You're really good at standing with Kaepershits protest. You're like really good at defending your arguments too.

>posts dumbshit narritive
>post gets replied to with more words than you can handle
>awwwww shieeeeet I shoulda stayed in school
>grrrr you are racist and i didn't read it ur post
>ur racisr

[Royce]

You're really good at standing with Kaepershits protest. You're like really good at defending your arguments too.

>posts dumbshit narritive
>post gets replied to with more words than you can handle
>awwwww shieeeeet I shoulda stayed in school
>grrrr you are racist and i didn't read it ur post
>ur racisr

I guess you don’t even see what you’re writing lllmaooo. Go repeat what you said to your black friends or anyone with common sense on video

[[MPGH]Cursed]

I guess you don’t even see what you’re writing lllmaooo. Go repeat what you said to your black friends or anyone with common sense on video

3 replies. 0 counter arguments. lmao just like kaepershit

Good debating Royce. Had fun.

[Royce]

3 replies. 0 counter arguments. lmao just like kaepershit

Good debating Royce. Had fun.

Got proof via Snapchat and now your sig. continue you racist fuck

[Gaydow]

Funny how you didn't quote me. I hope you don't expect People of color to figure out the solution when , for the most part , we aren't creating the problem

Royce, you really aren't understand what i'm saying. Do you not think there is a problem with how culture in the black community is these days? I literally feel bad for a lot of black kids because of how shitty they get treated in predominately black neighbourhoods in the US. If you aren't apart of the "bullies" you'll be the one getting beat up everyday. I see shit posted everyday. I saw some black kid get beat up by other black kids because he was new in the neighbourhood. If you want less police confrontations you need to fix the ROOT of this whole problem. Make sure black kids are being educated, deter kids from this norm of gang/violent culture in the US and lower single motherhood rates. A lot of the black people that are shot aren't innocent, just like any other race. There are racist police officers of all colours who have shot and killed innocents. This isn't a race issue. This is a cultural issue. If you can prove to me that all police officers or even 75% are racist, I will stand alongside you. Just because a black man is shot and killed by a police officer, you cannot assume he shot him because he was black. You cannot just assume it is racist. The word "racist" and the statement "police brutality against black men" are redundant to me because of how they're misused by many people and the media.

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Alright, I feel more or less convinced by that argument.

So to summarize the points you've been trying to make in this thread to me:

BLM and other groups and movements aiming to prevent police brutality have been ineffective and that is primarily because they entirely see their issue through one lens, "we must hold police accountable for their actions", which isn't a bad thing to do but it avoids the fact that their is an extreme disparity in crime from blacks compared to other Americans which would suggest that the police being far more likely to kill blacks is an inevitability. This would make BLM the equivalent of someone trying to fix an oil leak in a car by putting a bandage over the hole instead of welding the hold shut or getting a new gas tank. This extreme crime disparity would suggest a cultural or systemic problem facing black people in the U.S in recent history.

Is that what you think I should take away from what you've been trying to say?

For the aspect of blaming the police. It is the incorrect way to go about this issue. The police force is here to counter crime. When crime occurs, the police force reacts. Blaming the police for something that primarily isn't their fault is stupid, it's redirecting the blame which in my books is completely inexcusable. You must take responsibility and admit what the problem is, blaming something else for it will only make things worse.

This would make BLM the equivalent of someone trying to fix an oil leak in a car by putting a bandage over the hole instead of welding the hold shut or getting a new gas tank.

More like they're trying to fix an oil leak by putting a bandage on the door handle. They're not even focusing on the "oil leak" itself. BLM is saying that the issue is something completely different from what it is.

Your understanding of what i'm saying is correct for the most part.

[shyless84]

to think kneeling during the national anthem would cause such a debate in america. People worry to much on what looks right. More outraged by the re actions rather than the action that got us to this point.

[Excalibura]

no because I just have a bad feeling of the future

[John.McDonald]

For the aspect of blaming the police. It is the incorrect way to go about this issue. The police force is here to counter crime. When crime occurs, the police force reacts. Blaming the police for something that primarily isn't their fault is stupid, it's redirecting the blame which in my books is completely inexcusable. You must take responsibility and admit what the problem is, blaming something else for it will only make things worse.
More like they're trying to fix an oil leak by putting a bandage on the door handle. They're not even focusing on the "oil leak" itself. BLM is saying that the issue is something completely different from what it is.

Your understanding of what i'm saying is correct for the most part.

A quick Google Search found me statistics from the Washington Post

 

I know your inclination is "aw shit that is some leftist propaganda" but it is pretty much just some statistics and infographics gathered by the Washington Post and Bowling State Green University.

It directly states: The 54 criminal prosecutions were identified by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip M. Stinson and The Washington Post. Cases were culled from news reports, grand jury announcements and news releases from prosecutors. For individual cases, reporters obtained and reviewed thousands of pages of court records, police reports, grand jury indictments, witness testimony and video recordings. Dozens of prosecutors and defense attorneys in the cases were interviewed, along with legal experts, officers who were prosecuted and surviving relatives of the shooting victims.

Since the statistics were gathered by a University I feel like the legitimacy of those statistics are more or less as close to the truth as we can get. And since the article and statistics contained in that report are separate, you don't have to read a Communist Manifesto of how "capitalism is the cause of all suffering" or something like that

 

When you examine the chart detailing the factors of each case, you'll see that a large chunk of the "Not Convicted" and "Pending" cases involve an unarmed person getting shot from behind, don't involve a part of the incident being caught on camera, and most officers gave testimonies saying something like "I THOUGHT he was trying to do x to me" or "I THOUGHT he was pulling out a gun". There is also the fact that in several cases the cops shot 10+ rounds into a person yet they still didn't realize the person they were shooting was unarmed.

With those factors the cases sound pretty much like a "he said vs she said" scenario (since all you have as evidence is 2 differing eye-witness accounts) so of course the officer eventually wins the case since his testimony is considered more trustworthy than that of some shmuck in knee-deep in poverty. Makes sense.

Now you and me would just say "it sucks for the possibility that innocents might've been killed but it doesn't affect me and it's not like I'd have it the other way around, lol" but the people who live near the areas of these shootings honestly feel like their human rights are being trampled on and that they can't just be treated as humans by the cops that server their communities.

Theoretically, all a cop has to do is make sure that he can perceive (or at least voice the perception that) what someone is doing is a possible threat and there you go he gets to kill my friends and family without a problem. He gets no conviction and I have to be as paranoid as a hare in a fox hole hoping that I can get as much documentation as possible whenever the police randomly pulls me over or whenever an officer comes up to me on the streets thinking I'm some kind of criminal.

 

The obvious rebuttal of that point would be "just don't do the crime and don't start running like you're Usain Bolt".

First and most importantly, we know lunging at the cop is an obvious no. But what about lifting your hand to get you license? Some cops might see that as you trying to get a gun. The problem is that you have to comply with all the OBJECTIVE perceptions of a cop as well as the SUBJECTIVE perceptions of a cop to survive. That isn't going to work all the time. You might just become another statistic. If you live in Furguson, the possibility that you can be an ordinary dude and just die randomly by a police officer who pulled you over seems pretty disconcerting.

Secondly, if a cop kills someone who committed theft who was running away into a parking lot, I'm pretty sure you'd be more focused on the cop's potential crime than that of the other person. Cops aren't infallible. They can kill and commit crimes. Being a cop shouldn't make them any less accountable for a death than they would if they weren't a cop.

 

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This is no more self-evident in the case of Joseph Weekley where he shot a 7 year old. He claims the grandmother in the room "hit" his submachine gun causing it to discharge and the grandmother obviously disagrees with this account. There DEFINITELY isn't proof that Weekly is somehow a racist police officer who gets off on killing blacks. But he just as likely could've. That possibility is definitely going to make someone feel like he is gambling the lives of his family with each and every second a police officer is around them.

That sentiment is what the BLM movement stems from. They want to keep the police responsible for their actions. Think of it like the media trying to keep the governments they report responsible for their actions. Except waaaay too emotionally-charged and ineffective at targeting the problem the issue they face stems from, systemic or cultural disparities in crimes committed by black people vs white people (which MAY be the root of a police's perceptions of a black person as well as the perception of insecurity by a person in a place like Ferguson).

So to conclude there are 2 important things in this issue:
1. Trying to prevent the underlying causes of perceptions of danger by police officers when in contact with blacks and the perceptions of insecurity by blacks, extreme amounts of violence in black neighborhoods.
2. Keep police accountable for their actions just like we do any other institution or organization.

[Gaydow]

Royce, you really aren't understand what i'm saying. Do you not think there is a problem with how culture in the black community is these days? I literally feel bad for a lot of black kids because of how shitty they get treated in predominately black neighbourhoods in the US. If you aren't apart of the "bullies" you'll be the one getting beat up everyday. I see shit posted everyday. I saw some black kid get beat up by other black kids because he was new in the neighbourhood. If you want less police confrontations you need to fix the ROOT of this whole problem. Make sure black kids are being educated, deter kids from this norm of gang/violent culture in the US and lower single motherhood rates. A lot of the black people that are shot aren't innocent, just like any other race. There are racist police officers of all colours who have shot and killed innocents. This isn't a race issue. This is a cultural issue. If you can prove to me that all police officers or even 75% are racist, I will stand alongside you. Just because a black man is shot and killed by a police officer, you cannot assume he shot him because he was black. You cannot just assume it is racist. The word "racist" and the statement "police brutality against black men" are redundant to me because of how they're misused by many people and the media.

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For the aspect of blaming the police. It is the incorrect way to go about this issue. The police force is here to counter crime. When crime occurs, the police force reacts. Blaming the police for something that primarily isn't their fault is stupid, it's redirecting the blame which in my books is completely inexcusable. You must take responsibility and admit what the problem is, blaming something else for it will only make things worse.



More like they're trying to fix an oil leak by putting a bandage on the door handle. They're not even focusing on the "oil leak" itself. BLM is saying that the issue is something completely different from what it is.

Your understanding of what i'm saying is correct for the most part.

@Royce I'm quite intrigued. You said I didn't quote you but now that I have provided an explanation, you haven't replied to it? This is exactly why I ignore when you say anything. You literally say stuff without any basis. I'm still waiting for you to reply to my questions.

[EternalGamerz]

only black people kneel during the anthem LUL