Well hate to say it, but for the sake of a person existing, just in and of itself, written documents are pretty much all you need.
:/ not like we would know about other stuff without written text telling of adventures.
Kinda like stories of great hero's, the man existed, but how great he was, well thats all just legend.
That's where I would disagree, once you have an individual who was claimed to have performed amazing feats such as those of Jesus or other Earth-Deities the probability of that person actually existing go down significantly. Especially if the texts you base his existence on were mostly written well past his life or the lives of his supposed followers. When it comes to verifying were a person actually existed the validity becomes more of a spectrum than a clear defining line between "Didn't exist" or "Did exist". The moring contemporary writings there are about the said individual, the more likely they are to have existed. Or if the individual in question wrote information that can be directly tied to him the chances go up significantly. However when it comes to the Jesus Christ the contemporary texts are scant even when present. Most of the scholarly writings of the time that refereed to Jesus refer to the Christian's beliefs about their savior Jesus explicitly.
"We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot
Most war hero's had letters, or contemporary documents listing service. We're still talking about old days.
Here's a short wiki on the genealogy of Jesus and the discrepancies between the gospels.
Genealogy of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by Paroxysm; 01-22-2011 at 03:38 PM.
"We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot
?_? Paroxysm this debate is pointless really.
Jesus more than likely existed. Not saying he did what the bible said, but he existed.
Finding arbitrary documents just to prove he did exist isn't my task here, nor should it be anyone else's.
"We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot
Well if you strip away all his supernatural deeds and religious teachings you're left with a man named Yeshua / Christus or whatever he was called in the Roman times by the different ethnicities who promoted Christianity and was later tried and killed my the Romans.
So chances are at least a "role model" existed upon which the figurehead of those times' Christianity was based. Imagine that 2000 years from now a new religion sprouts with Aleks the Atheistic playing the role of an important figure comes into existence. He's described as an atheistic Russian who likes Reddit.
How many Russian Aleks/Aleksandr/Alexanders or whatever do you know that have visited Reddit? I be more than just a few
And coupled with some supposedly verified written evidence of his existence, I wouldn't really say I believe he existed, but I believe there's a greater chance a "role model" for his figure existed than not.
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Again I have no major qualms with a Christ-like character being around in the 1st Century. My issue is with people talking about this matter on the basis that some supposed credible documents exist, none of which are mentioned by name here and when they are mentioned by name in formal debates I've seen they are either discredited, not contemporary or entirely unsubstantiated. For the sake of argument I could say he existed but until we see further evidence in his favor for existence I'm not comfortable making claims either way about his existence.
We know there were plenty of Savior-claims in the First Century any of which could have been this Jesus fella. I'm heading out to church in a minute but afterwards I'll dig through some repos, see if I can compile some of these supposed documents.
"We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter." ~ Denis Diderot
There is no proof that either existe(d), so I believe in neither.