A Limit to Hacking?

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A Limit to Hacking?
My friend and I got into a friendly.. discussion about hacking. My stance on hacking is, "If you hack a little, why not hack all the way?"

The other opinion is, "Only hack to get by. There is no reason to exploit everything."

This is a very opinionated community and I sure won't take this type of discussion to the Nexon Forums.. lul..

Any and all responses is appreciated.

And no, this isn't a competition between us ^^ My opinion can be swayed and I always admit fault when I'm proven wrong.
Quote Originally Posted by undernorma View Post
The other opinion is, "Only hack to get by. There is no reason to exploit everything."
But when this person meet a tough enough challenge and cannot complete it, and there's a hack workaround this problem he/she will use it to "get by".

Sooner or later, these dudes is gonna exploit everything to "get by".
I say, hack all the way, but always put morals and the community before yourself. Yes, I know hacking is all about self gain, but you don't need to make it cost other people =/.
Create items, raise all of your stats, get into unreleased dungeons, but don't ruin it for others.
Quote Originally Posted by HoLyNeSs View Post
I say, hack all the way, but always put morals and the community before yourself. Yes, I know hacking is all about self gain, but you don't need to make it cost other people =/.
Create items, raise all of your stats, get into unreleased dungeons, but don't ruin it for others.
Amen. Please keep it in private boats! I love hacking in those jeeps.. it's just fun to do xD

If I could RIDE Those jeeps.. Omg.. I'm sorry.. I would have to go into pvp with one and just run people over.. Yes, stuff like that, I SHOULDN'T have access to. I would be crying because I would be laughing so hard.

Quote Originally Posted by Milanor View Post
But when this person meet a tough enough challenge and cannot complete it, and there's a hack workaround this problem he/she will use it to "get by".

Sooner or later, these dudes is gonna exploit everything to "get by".
That's a very good point. Titan, for example, has a tough breakoff. If your soloing and you spam spears, your going to get aggrossed and you might just get hit once or twice.
Exploit? Please Define.. Some people on the forums has gotten things so wrong and screwed in the mind.
Quote Originally Posted by busmokah View Post
Exploit? Please Define.. Some people on the forums has gotten things so wrong and screwed in the mind.
Hmm, I used the word "Exploit" because we started using the hack for unintended purposes. I'm sure there are better terms to use for that, but that's all I could come up with at that time.

Quote Originally Posted by Raisinets View Post
I haven't practiced C and C+ in a long time that due to inactivity, I only retain bits of information with no practical use.
I know absolutely nothing about C and C+. I tried taking computer logic courses in college and work my way up to C++, It's just way over my head. I'll stick with psychology.

Quote Originally Posted by Raisinets View Post
Just think about it as smoking, drinking beer/alcoholic stuff, getting high. If you overdose yourself on those things, it will someday come back to kill you. Moderate and planned cheating at least will give you a chance to get away with your ill-gotten stuff so that you can have more fun with the game and others
I find this to be a very sound point. In my logic, why don't I go all out on everything then. Maybe I do need to slow down on some of the things I have done.
Quote Originally Posted by undernorma View Post
I love hacking in those jeeps.. it's just fun to do xD
now ive tried it a ton of times

what exactly are you putting in to get the jeeps?
Quote Originally Posted by monophobic View Post
now ive tried it a ton of times

what exactly are you putting in to get the jeeps?
Theres a couple ways to "spawn" jeeps and other Garry's Mod type things. Easiest way for me is to change the source files in the .hfs of something like golden balls, spawn one and Boom, instant jeep. It's nothing special unless you wanna troll people. I only used it once so far, took it out to do more dungeoning and haven't used it since.

I think the other way is to have a console that has sv_cheats being able to be turned on/off. I don't know anything about that kinda console.
Quote Originally Posted by undernorma View Post
Theres a couple ways to "spawn" jeeps and other Garry's Mod type things. Easiest way for me is to change the source files in the .hfs of something like golden balls, spawn one and Boom, instant jeep. It's nothing special unless you wanna troll people. I only used it once so far, took it out to do more dungeoning and haven't used it since.

I think the other way is to have a console that has sv_cheats being able to be turned on/off. I don't know anything about that kinda console.
yea i happen to have one of those consoles

i think im just failing to turn sv_cheats on some how
im assuming sv_cheats is also why i cnt get godmode to wrk
Quote Originally Posted by monophobic View Post
yea i happen to have one of those consoles

i think im just failing to turn sv_cheats on some how
im assuming sv_cheats is also why i cnt get godmode to wrk
Even with a console that removes cheat protection, you can't turn on sv_cheats. That's not a problem though, because if you have a console that removes cheat protection, there is no use in turning sv_cheats on. The console already enabled you to use all the cheat-protected commands! In short, with that type of console, setting sv_cheats equal to 1 through the commands 'sv_cheats 1' is obsolete!
Let me share my thoughts about hacking in games. In single player games, I hack openly. I've been doing it since I was a kid starting from Game Genie to Pro Action Replay then to Game Shark/Gold Finger/Code Breaker, name it, I probably tried those cheating tools at one point of my life or another lol! I do so without shame because the cheats only affect my own experience. Why be limited by what the game programmers want, when you could change things in a game to suit your own playing style? I treat computer and video games the same as how I treated action figures. I do what I want with them for fun as much as possible. Of course, for computer and video games, what I can do is only limited by my knowledge in coding and some game theory, which to put bluntly, isn't at the elite levels. So yeah, every game that I "Try Before I Buy", I usually download trainers for or make my own trainers for them if I can't find any. To me, cheating isn't an evil thing, it's just something that I do for fun without harming anyone else.

As for cheating in multiplayer games such as Vindictus, I've never really done it a lot. Vindictus is actually the first game where I used very powerful commands to change the gameplay to what I want. The closest I've gotten to what I am currently doing in Vindictus now was buying a lot of expensive swords for 10K (they were 200K each on the npc) and reselling them back. The reason for this is that I have very limited knowledge in packet editing and assembly language (I almost failed assembly in my course lol!), and I haven't practiced C and C+ in a long time that due to inactivity, I only retain bits of information with no practical use.

I think that cheating in multiplayer games is something that should be done a lot more discreetly and thoughtfully since you're not the only person playing. It is also possible that cheating in an online game can get you banned, no matter if you make alt accounts or not. This is why I'm very inhibited when in comes to this kind of cheating. I don't go overboard with cheats, and I tell nobody, whether they're guild friends or real life friends who play the same game, about what I'm doing for fear of being reported.

Cheating in multiplayer games to me is not about showing off that you have superior stats and armor and bragging about it all the time. To me, cheating in multiplayer games needs a good balance between getting what you want, as much as you want, without causing anyone to pay attention to you. For example, in this game, there was a time when we could generate any item that we wanted. Some people who created items meant for developers only got banned, while a lot of people who just generated normal items (not cash shop items) are still safely cheating right now. In other words, one must limit his/her greed when cheating in an mmo game, otherwise, it would be very easy to single you out as a cheater.

If you were to ask me "What would you do if there's a way to generate items again, would you use it?". My answer would be YES. I'd use it but only in limited ways. No generation of cash shop items (you pay real money for those, and loss of real money means serious trouble from the angry company), no generation of developer limited items (why bother with this when I already have access to almost everything?), good division of gold among alternate characters not reaching 100M each, and most of all, no showing off to anyone.

In the end, although cheating is supposed to be "morally wrong", I think that cheating is not that bad as long as you know how to limit yourself. Just think about it as smoking, drinking beer/alcoholic stuff, getting high. If you overdose yourself on those things, it will someday come back to kill you. Moderate and planned cheating at least will give you a chance to get away with your ill-gotten stuff so that you can have more fun with the game and others
Quote Originally Posted by undernorma View Post
My friend and I got into a friendly.. discussion about hacking. My stance on hacking is, "If you hack a little, why not hack all the way?"

The other opinion is, "Only hack to get by. There is no reason to exploit everything."

This is a very opinionated community and I sure won't take this type of discussion to the Nexon Forums.. lul..

Any and all responses is appreciated.

And no, this isn't a competition between us ^^ My opinion can be swayed and I always admit fault when I'm proven wrong.
Eh,hack all the way.

Why just do a little and stop?
Quote Originally Posted by Karleo View Post
Eh,hack all the way.

Why just do a little and stop?
That's kinda my stand on it.
I've heard stuff like, "A white lie is the same as murder."
"If your going to steal, why not take something big."
"if you get in a fight, go on and beat the sh*t out of the other person, your going to get in trouble anyway."

Now that I've had time to think about mine and my friend's conversation, the laws set the limits on punishment. The more bigger crime you commit, the bigger the punishment you will receive. Of course, that doesn't always apply to everything. Here, if we hack a little, we get banned, if you hack a lot, we get banned.
I only hack for my own amusement, so I mainly use size changing hack for fun and secondary weapon hacks to make the game a bit easier, and a bit of amusement with the bust size hacks.

When I have to grind a dungeon that I can beat with my eyes closed (hello Brynn's Research) then yes, I will hack it and just kill the boss to get it over with, although I never used damage hacks to cheat a boss... I'll just fast forward TO the boss.

Any dungeon with a boss I am fighting for the first time I will NOT hack except for the situation where nobody will join my party, like trying to do White Tyrants Challenge the moment I got it, and nobody joined my boat for half an hour. I still tried to solo it legit about 15 times before I gave up and hacked it.

Hacking all the way to me is no fun, I'd rather do it legit the first time, and if the fight/dungeon is a total breeze, then I'll maybe use levelchange. Damage hacks were never used by me. Any hacks that break the game for OTHER players I always avoid, so item creation hacks or anything like that is right out for me, and I feel bad giving myself stuff for free when I should have earned it all proper like.

Exploiting all the way, I just don't get the point of it, it removes all challenge of the game, but then again I like my games taking me a long time, cause once I hit the end, farming for gear for the sake of farming is a killer. I can never do new game plus, never do a second play through, once I beat a game it's DONE. That's why I tend to do everything on the hardest difficulty I can, and if I replay something for some reason I will do either fun hacks or no hacks at all.

I'm the person who fought Myg0t hackers in counterstrike by buying the desert eagle and shooting wildly around corners hoping to headshot them before I would die to aimbot, or spinning in circles slashing my knife at head height in order to kill speed hackers. I was successful SOMETIMES on both counts!

But overall I am a bad hacker.
Stealing something small is different from stealing something big though.
Stealing from a bank needs a lot of planning, equipments, etc. But stealing from a deli for example doesn't really require a lot of effort. And the punishment for both of those instances is drastically different so I don't think it would apply to the why not go all the way.
But I guess hacking in game is slightly different. Unless you're doing something that's like generating NX items and affecting other players.

I'm pretty sure if you have a company you wouldn't want people to be chipping off from your profits right?
Nexon is just a business and by getting NX for free is affecting not only the company but also the progress of these games that we all are currently playing in. Therefore, in this case I don't agree with people who used item creation to get NX items and use it. I believe in karma and karma is a bitch. You don't want something similar to happen to you, don't do it to other people.
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