Why a Wall Won't Stop Immigration

"It would have to stretch over 2,000 miles of terrain."

Great wall of china is 5500 miles long. 2000 would be a piece of cake.

"And all of that destruction would be monstrously expensive. It would cost a whopping $12 to $25 billion just to build"

Good thing Mexico will be paying for it then.

"It'd easily be one of the most expensive single pieces of infrastructure in American history. It would cost as much as 20 Hoover Dams or the entirety of NASA's annual budget. "

And far more valuable than putting a man on the moon or Mars.

"Because it's estimated that between 27 and 40 percent of all undocumented immigrants came here on planes."

Nirvana fallacy.

"Mexico's economy is doing quite well and population growth has slowed way down, so there isn't much pressure to immigrate. Illegal border crossings are actually at an all-time low."

500,000 thousand per year is 500,000 too many.

"The fact is, they're already here. Nearly one out of every 30 people in America is an unauthorized immigrant."

See the above.

If he builds a wall, ladders and rope will go up in price.

Good thing We've got 2200 years of technology to help out since then.

You haven't been paying attention to the proposals, have you? A few of the many ways to get them directly or indirectly to pay:
1. Levy a wire transfer tax on all funds sent to Mexico.
2. Increase the cost of Visas on people coming to the US from Mexico.
3. Charge a tariff on goods coming over the border from Mexico.
4. increase fees on all border crossing cards.
5. increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico.
6. Cut the foreign aid to Mexico.


330,000 last year where CAUGHT. Double that for the ones that got through. It's a disaster that continues.

If you consider cheap labor for big business and cheap labor for your gardener and house cleaner positive, sure. The reality is the crime, depressed wages for US citizens, cost of government benefits, etc. far outweighs any alleged "positive effects".


See the above.

Yep, walls don't work. Just like shoes don't work because they become untied, and buckets don't work because they can spill...

Couldn't handle my utter destruction of your points, so you throw out a couple of Ad hominems then disappear. Bye bye.

The government, just like they regulate all other taxes and fees levied.


Nirvana fallacy. Look it up.

To pay for the wall. Illegals come here, take jobs from citizens, drive down wages, and send the money back to Mexico.

Last year, more than $120 billion was sent to Mexico. At 10% the wall is paid for in 10 years with just this source of income alone. Add in all the other ones and the wall is paid for in half that time or less, and annual maintenance is perpetually covered.

Let's make it more unattractive to come legally and illegally.


Apparently more so than you. Increased cost of imports = more competitive domestic goods = more demand = more jobs and higher wages for citizens.


Oops, you really didn't think it all through before starting the name calling, did you? The name calling is a sure sign you've lost the argument.

See the above. The foreign aid alone will cover the annual maintenance. The savings to the tax payers in illegal benefits and reduced crime alone will cover the annual maintenance. Funding the wall and maintaining the wall with no additional expense to the US tax payer is easily done.

No they don't. Does, "working under the table" mean anything to you? They do kick in a bit from sales taxes to the states, but add up the cost of crime, incarceration, free medical, and education, and it's a net loss by far.

Cheap labor = low wages. Perfect for big business. Not so good for for the wage earner.


Nirvana fallacy. Look it up.

Because they are the main source of illegal immigrants

If true, that would be great, and a wall would accelerate that ratio. Unfortunately, it's not true.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ce...rticle/2592688

And again, Mexico and Latin America are still the biggest source of illegal immigrants, followed by East and South Asia. I'm all for shutting down those illegals too. They mainly overstay their visas so greater monitoring and control over that is crucial. That doesn't take away the value of the wall though, or the rationale for having Mexico and Mexicans pay for it.

http://cis.org/New-Data-Immigration-...-2014-and-2015

I'm not strictly focusing on Mexican illegals. I've said repeatedly that all illegals are a problem as well as legal immigration. We need to take a break to assimilate and take care of the people that are already here.

It's one good, practical solution that works. That's the important thing. But hey, if you've got a better way to stop half a million/year illegals, do tell.

Wages are matter of supply and demand. Lot's of workers = lot's of supply of labor = low wages. Limited supply of labor and wages have to increase to attract the labor.

Um, no. Minimum wages are artificially government imposed wages that don't allow the market to set the proper level of wages.

Demand for the product of the wages will indeed naturally find the proper balance. Don't want to pay $3.00 for a lb. of tomatoes, demand goes down, producers lower production or find another way to cut costs through mechanization rather than pay for more expensive human labor.

See the above, plus of course that higher wages mean that people have more money in their pocket to spend for higher priced goods.

I guess I care more about Americans then worry about how Mexico will struggle with 10% less money that was taken from potential American pockets.


Yeah, we get it. Walls don't work. Shoelaces don't work. Hoses don't work. Nothing works perfect. Nirvana fallacy.

Of the 51 fortified boundaries built between countries since the end of World War II, around half were constructed between 2000 and 2014.

Why? Because walls do work.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...mexico/483156/

Oh, and ironically, Mexico is building a 'wall'... on its southern border (to keep illegal immigrants out). Perhaps even more ironic, The US is sending $75m in equipment and training to help stop Central Americans from crossing illegally into Mexico.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...ss-who-paid-it


Cool. Let's see how well they do with higher priced US made shit vs how well we do with higher priced Mexican made shit. If they don't want a trade war, then they can just kick in and help with our wall like we helped with their wall.

LOL, so we should be bribing them with aid so that they will trade with us? I'm guessing they will trade whether we bribe them or not.


Supply and demand of labor sets wages as explained above. No willing labor, and wages rise. Rising wages means more income for workers to buy stuff.

Walls work and they work well. Not perfect but very well. I've put to rest now all the excuses from the OP why a wall won't work. Most of the discussion here has be back and forth about economics. There are plenty of options on funding the wall. That is really a non-issue.

Several European countries have erected fences to keep migrants out, and, according to the numbers, every case appears to have a large impact.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...art-has-answer