Code question

Originally Posted by NextGen1

Meh, Help him or not is your guys decision.

On top of that, (though wrong) his "lying" may be a attempt to "fit in", Consider that the C++ section (my section is going to kill me for this

) is really the "elite" (in a way) part of the development community on MPGH, because all of the good Hacks, Chams, and such are developed in this language, so in a comparison, C++ = Jocks (highschool football team) and the rest the geeks (High school chess club),

NextGen You made my night! LMAO for a whole minute at that one. Haha! o lawd, C++ = jocks, that in itself is just hilarious! xD ... oh lol.

@David:
Oh wow! I didn't know that was the same faegot all that time ago. Ima have to reread that thread because Im pretty sure we ended up flaming the hell out of him.

EDIT: lol. just looked, yeh I think last time this guy posted I was ready to permaban him. A bit of an improvement from then I guess. =/

Originally Posted by NextGen1

Meh, Help him or not is your guys decision.

My point is don't say you won't help him for leeching , cause it is not like he claimed it as his own, simply say, I don't want to help.

Cause the OP never said it was his, he said "I Found It" I Would still like to see user credit (though not forum credit...)

On top of that, (though wrong) his "lying" may be a attempt to "fit in", Consider that the C++ section (my section is going to kill me for this

) is really the "elite" (in a way) part of the development community on MPGH, because all of the good Hacks, Chams, and such are developed in this language, so in a comparison, C++ = Jocks (highschool football team) and the rest the geeks (High school chess club), in my opinion, the OP is just trying to get some help, through obvious manipulation, but by no means malicious.

That's all I was saying

However, it is your section , So help or not, let it die and offer no help if you want

Seriously, that sounds way to smart for someone that codes in VB >.> You just stabbed your own people in the balls >.>

@Why
Ha Ha Ha ha

@ HD
NextGen1 = Developer in general , Not soley a VB developer, probally one of the biggest differences when it comes to me and "My People"

I fluently "speak"

Visual Basic 3,4,5,6 ,Visual Basic.Net 7,7.5,8,9,10,Visual FoxPro 5 ,HTML (standard as is),HTML 5 (Which is awesome btw, it can perform tasks seen in flash with nothing more then html code, same visualizations, same can be said about it quickly replacing the need for java),JAVA ,B.A.S.I.C

I also know

ASM (some),FLASH (some),ASP (Most),ASP.Net / VB Code behind / Inline,CSS,C# enouph to get by,Php (enouph to get by),

I Use with these languages

Jquery,Ajax,Minimilistic tools

Trying to learn Obj C completly, though I know the concepts.

I have Visual basic IDE, Visual Basic.Net IDE , VIsual Web Developer IDE , Frontpage (for asp) , Dreamweaver, Visual C# , Visual C++, Borland C++, Turbo Pascal , Eclipse, Visual Phone Developer IDE, IPhone SDK , Palm Pre SDK, Android SDK, Windows 5 and 6 Developer Tools , Webkit, Palm PDK, Netbeans, DXSDK, SlimDXSDK , Zendo, Visual Fox Pro, A windows Xp sp2 machine, A windows XP sp3 machine, A windows 7 32bit machine, a Windows 7 64 bit machine, and a mac, I have my 2 phones 1 is a htc touch the other a Iphone, I also have for testing a android based HTC (not activated) and a Palm pre (used to be activated)

Point is I am "well rounded" and understand that each language trades off between low-level and control to it's complexity and it's performance and finally to it's ability to be expressive. Some languages are better suited to certain tasks than others, and I get that

Originally Posted by NextGen1

Some languages are better suited to certain tasks than others, and I get that

Truer words haven't been spoken here. Unfortunately not too many people see that and they get caught up in the 'X is better than Z' crap..

Originally Posted by NextGen1

@ HD
*insert bigass list of languages here*

DAAAUUMMMMMMM
That's alot >.> I know:
C/++
C#
VB(not proud of it)
HTML(starting with 5 soon, google wrote Quake in HTML5 o__O)
PHP
Basics of CSS
Lua
Actionscript(soon useless when HTML5 kicks in)
Assembly(well, I can read disassembly, can write very basic stuff)
Basics of java

Originally Posted by NextGod1

Point is I am "well rounded" and understand that each language trades off between low-level and control to it's complexity and it's performance and finally to it's ability to be expressive. Some languages are better suited to certain tasks than others, and I get that

True that!
Although you have to agree that it's way more easy to bash VB 'coders' since it's so full of leechers, which is the main reason I dislike VB.
In my eyes VB isn't even worth being called a programming language, but then again C# is pretty much VB with C++ styled syntax and I freakin love that >.>

The world of people with Syndrom of Asperger is too black and white for it,
Even if you'd bring up a million points of why VB is good I'd still refuse to admit to it just because it sucking is my initial opinion and it's pretty hard to make me think otherwise, sorry for that :P

Mmmm... It's always said some programming languages are better at certain things, but how I've always seen it, the lower the better if you're not lazy. My ASM enthusiasm is even more edged up coming to the end of this beginner book. When I get good enough I'd rather to make programs in C/C++ that reflect the aspects of system internals and HLL aspects at the same time, and make a real habit of editing the ASM code put out by the compiler, to optimize better than the optimizer. Of course ASM isn't the same across OS' and most certainly not the same across architectures, but I'm very inquisitive on learning all varieties.
~

Problem is the lower the level, the more obsolete a language is becoming, Fact is Applications developed by Microsoft are being constructed in higher level languages (even though all visual languages compile at the lowest level, just a note...) In fact most applications Microsoft produces are built in either Visual basic or Visual C++ which is why the run times are required in the OS , Hell you can build a fully functional operating system with Java, Html, and Ajax callbacks, look at Solaris and chrome. Or "getting down to the roots" Use Unix API and C++ to create a OS (will need a OS deployment)

But really think about it as time progresses, it is becoming easier to develop applications and OS with no need for lower level languages, in fact, that is why it is important in this day and age to begin learning internet based languages, Chrome OS will revolutionize the industry, soon all computers will be manifesting information from a cloud server, and every device will sync, and that goal is the goal of developers like me, and probably like you, it is our goal to change the industry, and in believing in that, we have to change with the industry.

Just as code has done for years..

Autocode to forunners for C like CPL to Pascal and basic to C to C++ and now here we are with HTML 5 and the GO language (googles language)

Oh, how the times have changed, and so do we

, if you want a career in the industry you need to know as much of the leading languages as possible so you can conform to the industries ever changing and ever demanding needs.

One of my favorite quotes can be found in almost any programmers "manifesto"

"Software is a process not a product
Software is living - it’s never finished and, like humans, it’s never perfect.
" Cocoa Developers Manifesto , Bill Gates, and Numerous others have this understanding, and so do I

Sorry for Hijacking thread Zman

NextGen, you made me want to quit learning C++ and assembly...

Sorry, not my intentions, ASM will die out eventually, C++ will hold it's place somewhere in the industry, and if not directly, then some form of C, do you know that even Apple is working it's way over to web languages, IAPP was developed in HTML5 , Apple has started approving applications developed in Java and HtML5

That's just the beginning

Shouldn't there always be a small part of the industry that has to deal with the lowest of the low? I mean, sure there are those languages like VB and C# but don't they need to be compiled? They are bound to the .NET framework, but what made the .NET framework? And what compiled the language it was made in? etc..

If at all, a very small part of the industry, Google Chrome OS was built with C and WebKit.

But think of us as application developers not working on the OS , if you want to make an application for the palm pre you built it with web languages, if you want to build an application for the Iphone / Ipad it can be a web based language, Google Chrome OS applications are all web2.0 and web applications with no local applications at all, so as a application developer who lets say only develops in VB, then where is your place in the world 5-10 years from now (or even sooner)

Steve Jobs during a convention said something along the lines of " I see the industry as it is changing, now cars have the ability to use Cloud servers to check your BAC (blood alcohol) to a database in your area and see if you are unable to drive, and if it is not, your car won't start"

Steve Jobs is saying that the industry is changing and applications are becoming reliant on internet data, which is why html allows stored procedures and access to the local database for downloading content for offline use , the reason html 5 does this is because it's developers understand that applications will be internet based, and if you need access to the application and don't have internet access then they offer a way for you to make the application available offline. (hard to explain)

in either case, all just a matter of time (IMO)

the .net framework is just another blip in this ever changing industry D:

Are you saying I should start learning HTML? .__.

I say every developer should know

HTML / HTML5
Java
how to use AJAX
and How to use Jquery

Did you know the number one, featured Application for the Ipad was developed with HML , CSS, Jquery?

do you have any idea how much that company is making now?...

Anyway, really your call, Considering you know C++ let me make a suggestion, Learn Html by using Visual Web Developer, If you need to create applications you can use C# which has similar syntax to C++, so it will be familiar territory to you. I am not saying to use it for the C# aspect of it, but at least you can learn HTML in a familiar application and be able to develop applications with a familiar language, it is how I learned Asp.net

From personal experience here's my thoughts on this:

but how I've always seen it, the lower the better if you're not lazy.

Commendable, but in the business world it's all about time & money. If it takes you say 3 months to develop a product in Language 'A', and 12 months in Language 'B' which is also harder to maintain, most companies will tell you to use Language 'A', whether you're a fan of it or not.

Assembly's performance & size edge is also disappearing vs what compilers are generating from say C++. IMHO The good old days of bitshifting to multiply and other inline assembly tricks are, except for perhaps a very narrow & specialized field, behind us. That of course doesn't mean it's not fun to write a windows app in ASM anyway just because you can (i'm guilty of that

)

With how 'cheap' processing power & storage space have become, speed & size of applications are no longer the issue they once were (which also unfortunately creates 'lazy' programmers who have no idea about efficient algorithms etc) so the entire market is definitely moving upwards towards more high-level development & the 'web' side of things.

We're moving away from low-level, direct hardware access to layers upon layers (& sandboxes) of abstract APIs and containers, all to shield the developer from what's really going on under the hood, and going towards a more distributed computing type of development.

As far as what languages to learn etc it all depends on what you like to do and where you like to go.
There's quite a difference between a Web Developer, Application Developer, Systems Developer, Embedded Developer etc,etc. The "Hot Thing" right now is definitely Web Development (Probably a 5-1 ratio of Web Dev positions available vs Desktop development).

Even within those broad categories there's tons of subcategories. Plaftorms like .NET actually try to bridge some of these areas since you can do Windows or Web development in any of the .NET languages which make it easier for devs to both tasks if they're familiar with one or the other (though some concepts are different; e.g. most desktop-only devs would've never heard of a postback or how it's used).

I've done both web & desktop development on several platforms (windows,*nix etc) over the years and I simply prefer 'desktop' or embedded development, just like I prefer C++/C# over Java or VB (reading/writing VB literally gives me a headache.. like it's a right brain/left brain kind of thing lol). But it doesn't hurt to know them anyway so that when I want to write an app for my Droid phone I can just fire up Eclipse and bang out some Java.

The one thing to indeed realize is that you are never done learning in the computer industry - while concepts, design patterns carry over the languages change over time (sometimes rapidly) and either become surpassed or irellevant.. (e.g. COBOL - while once the 'hot language' for business apps & still running in legacy apps here or there, barely any new development is done in it compared to any of the other languages). Some of things I studied when I got my degree I still work with practically every day, while others I haven't touched in over a decade. C# didn't even exist back then, and now I spend 95% of my time developing in it. I still love my C++, but for what I do on a daily basis (windows apps) it's actually faster for me to develop in C# than C++. 10 years from now C# will probably be old & outdated and we'll be working in Z# (F# is already out there

).

If you like C++ and want to keep working with it, don't stop. It will only help your foundation of software engineering which you can apply to any language you choose to pick up later on. There are also still PLENTY of markets & Jobs that require raw power C++, low level direct hardware access etc etc.

But no matter what you choose, 'Web or Windows' so to speak, if you were to pursue software development as a career, i'm sure you'll be able to find some employment somewhere (if you have the proven skills etc). Just looking at dice.com a few simple searches find: C# (6289 jobs), .NET (7727 Jobs), C++ (5734 jobs), Java (13033 jobs), Visual basic (1464 jobs), PHP (2226 Jobs).

Originally Posted by B1ackAnge1

From personal experience here's my thoughts on this:

Commendable, but in the business world it's all about time & money. If it takes you say 3 months to develop a product in Language 'A', and 12 months in Language 'B' which is also harder to maintain, most companies will tell you to use Language 'A', whether you're a fan of it or not.

Assembly's performance & size edge is also disappearing vs what compilers are generating from say C++. IMHO The good old days of bitshifting to multiply and other inline assembly tricks are, except for perhaps a very narrow & specialized field, behind us. That of course doesn't mean it's not fun to write a windows app in ASM anyway just because you can (i'm guilty of that

)

With how 'cheap' processing power & storage space have become, speed & size of applications are no longer the issue they once were (which also unfortunately creates 'lazy' programmers who have no idea about efficient algorithms etc) so the entire market is definitely moving upwards towards more high-level development & the 'web' side of things.

We're moving away from low-level, direct hardware access to layers upon layers (& sandboxes) of abstract APIs and containers, all to shield the developer from what's really going on under the hood, and going towards a more distributed computing type of development.

As far as what languages to learn etc it all depends on what you like to do and where you like to go.
There's quite a difference between a Web Developer, Application Developer, Systems Developer, Embedded Developer etc,etc. The "Hot Thing" right now is definitely Web Development (Probably a 5-1 ratio of Web Dev positions available vs Desktop development).

Even within those broad categories there's tons of subcategories. Plaftorms like .NET actually try to bridge some of these areas since you can do Windows or Web development in any of the .NET languages which make it easier for devs to both tasks if they're familiar with one or the other (though some concepts are different; e.g. most desktop-only devs would've never heard of a postback or how it's used).

I've done both web & desktop development on several platforms (windows,*nix etc) over the years and I simply prefer 'desktop' or embedded development, just like I prefer C++/C# over Java or VB (reading/writing VB literally gives me a headache.. like it's a right brain/left brain kind of thing lol). But it doesn't hurt to know them anyway so that when I want to write an app for my Droid phone I can just fire up Eclipse and bang out some Java.

The one thing to indeed realize is that you are never done learning in the computer industry - while concepts, design patterns carry over the languages change over time (sometimes rapidly) and either become surpassed or irellevant.. (e.g. COBOL - while once the 'hot language' for business apps & still running in legacy apps here or there, barely any new development is done in it compared to any of the other languages). Some of things I studied when I got my degree I still work with practically every day, while others I haven't touched in over a decade. C# didn't even exist back then, and now I spend 95% of my time developing in it. I still love my C++, but for what I do on a daily basis (windows apps) it's actually faster for me to develop in C# than C++. 10 years from now C# will probably be old & outdated and we'll be working in Z# (F# is already out there

).

If you like C++ and want to keep working with it, don't stop. It will only help your foundation of software engineering which you can apply to any language you choose to pick up later on. There are also still PLENTY of markets & Jobs that require raw power C++, low level direct hardware access etc etc.

But no matter what you choose, 'Web or Windows' so to speak, if you were to pursue software development as a career, i'm sure you'll be able to find some employment somewhere (if you have the proven skills etc). Just looking at dice.com a few simple searches find: C# (6289 jobs), .NET (7727 Jobs), C++ (5734 jobs), Java (13033 jobs), Visual basic (1464 jobs), PHP (2226 Jobs).

NextGen1 shatters my dreams and you bring them back up. (:

Question for you BA, how much time do you spend programming in C++ and assembly for your job? Not for personal purposes.

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