So - MPGH

Visible, how uneducated can you be?

Originally Posted by Empire

Visible, how uneducated can you be?

Lol, this has no point to it, you just love having the last word right? i tell you what, you admit it and ill let you have the last word.

admit your a troll who has a freaking disorder on having the last word.

And ask nicely

Originally Posted by Visiblegaming

Hmm? ok RED: go pray to your human god [Horus] bro, nuf of you trieng to be whitty about Mohammed PBUH and allah. Oh look! your gods dieng..not so much of a god now is he?

---

you jumped right onto the subject of abraham, i like it you have no responce to this.

Christians arn't commanded to pilgrimage anywhere, so why would psalm talk about pilgrimage? because it has unedited bits from the old bible, and this bit tells us Mekkah/Kaaba is the only place to pilgrimage to, as it is commanded.

Ah yes..the bible is edited.
The main focal of debate for the all glorious and peaceful Muslims.

Let me present to you exhibit A.

This collection of approximately fifty Greek and Coptic manuscripts was purchased by M. Martin Bodmer of Switzerland in 1955-56, and has been dated at around 200 A.D. They are word for word concordant with every greek translation that went into circulation (Oh snap that's like 2000 years ago..)

Most of the collection is located in the Bibliotheca Bodmeriana in Cologny (near Geneva)

The Chester Beatty Papyrus P45
Dated 200-250 A.D.), made public in 1931, contains the Gospels, Acts, Paul’s Epistles, and Revelation.

Magdalen Papyrus (P64)
The papyrus scraps had been housed at the library of Magdalen College for more than 90 years, the gift of a British chaplain, Rev. Charles Huleatt, who bought them at an antiquities market in Luxor, Egypt. Using new tools such as a scanning laser microscope along with more conventional handwriting analysis, Thiede re-dates the fragments, previously dated in the mid- to late second century, to sometime between 30 and 70 A.D.

In three places on the Magdalen Papyrus, the name of Jesus is written as "KS", an abbreviation of the Greek word Kyrios, or Lord.
Matthew 26

Find me manuscripts of the Qur'an that are this old..
Muslims believe that the Jewish and Christian books were edited by man over time..Yet there is physical proof of both old and new testament that predates Islam by OVER 500 years..but yes..these aren't true.
God made Jews and Gentiles alike a promise. That his word would be preserved. He didn't fail in this promise of course, but Muslims love producing this illusion. Let these Ancient scriptures guide those that seek truth to God, to Jesus, to the true King of Kings, the Prince of peace.
Blessed are those that find truth in these words.

well all Christianity is, is Judaism with Jesus as our Messiah which resulted in the New Testament

Originally Posted by derkman

well all Christianity is, is Judaism with Jesus as our Messiah which resulted in the New Testament

Yes and no. Jesus preached to both Jews and Gentiles.
He told the Jews that all the laws of the old stand for them,
and that he was not there to take that away from them.
I think many people think that EVERYONE needs to follow the OT
word for word,
but this promise of conservation was only given to the chosen people which were of course the Semites.
Jesus never said that Gentiles shouldn't practice Semitic ritual,
he only taught that it was something that was not a necessity for salvation.

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Ah yes..the bible is edited.
The main focal of debate for the all glorious and peaceful Muslims.

Let me present to you exhibit A.

Bzzt* The bible was in different parts during different time periods, techniqly stories, and put together Centuries after Jesus went up to heaven.

Oldest quran found 20years after prophets death.

Who wrote the bible? MEN, Men wrote the bible, which men? men who arn't even prophets.

Who wrote the Quran? God. nuff said about this.

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All i see is images with writing in the bottom, please can you "jazz" up your post, because i aint got the best attention span and get borred quick [thats why i dont read wall of text

]

Images + claims = not proof.

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Bibles are known for having different versions, and the quran is known for being the 1 and only.

Everytime i bring something up its like "No thats in the old testament".."no thats in king james version only"..."no thats in [w.e]"..

"Take now your son, your only son, Isaac." (Genesis 22:2).
"You have not withheld your son, your only son, from me." (Genesis 22:12).

Does god not know abraham has 2 sons, ishmail and isaac? "your only son" makes no sense.

The NT was NOT written by any prophet or messenger. There are various reports about the time mark by which it was compiled. But most of the reports suggest that it was compiled between 90 to 150 A.D.

NT was compiled by collecting letters of the disciples of the disciples of the disciples of Jesus. You wont see "Mark, Mathew, Luke etc." to be the disciples of Jesus. They were way down in the history.

How many times has the bible had "minor changes" ? minor changes effect the understanding.

[][][][][][][]
Falling asleep, God bless. Zzz*

Originally Posted by Visiblegaming

]

Images + claims = not proof.

Actually according to Muslim belief Gabriel spoke the Qur'an to Muhammed..
God didn't drop the Qur'an in his lap..
so learn your own holy book.
This alone leaves plenty of room for human error
even if the story was true.

Gabriel "spoke" the Qur'an to Muhammed

Muhammad recited the Qur’an to his followers, numbering tens of thousands, who recited after him, until they had memorized it. He also dictated it to his scribes (Muhammad was illiterate) who wrote down its verses during his life. Shortly after Muhammad's death the Qur’an was established textually into a single book form by the order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr.

So..the Argument for Muslims is that there was no corruption whatsoever..
directly from God came these words.

No.

The only one to ever have anything given to them Physically and textually in all 3 major religions was Moses. God inscribed the ten commandments in stone.
PERSONALLY.

So here is the issue with Muslims and the claim of direct divine teaching.
You don't have to even be a theology major to understand this either.
If you got that awesome mental gift of common sense, than you can grasp this with ease my friends.

According to Islamic fundamental teaching,
and this is even documented in the 6 hadith's
it wasn't Muhammed alone that had the task of spreading the Qur'an..
So basically you got an illiterate prophet, and a bunch of guys trying to remember what Gabriel had told Muhammed..
so yeah..totally not plausible that some human error might happen there right?

Compared to the OT where God directly spoke to prophets and Kings,
didn't send a messenger, and expected these prophets and Kings, and people to fufill what he spoke, almost immediately..
Read the book of Job..actually Job is one of the most loyal and underrated servants of God to even this time. God spoke directly to him.

To end this shortly, I know not a lot of people don't read everything in my posts,
(and if you do and find truth in it, bless you..)

But the people of Islam constantly slander Jewish and Christian belief,
and make no mistake, it's not a matter of sect..many Muslims do.
Anyway, the claims that the Qur'an is perfect and man has edited the bible..
really..with what I just presented to you..make your own assumptions with this..and please try to read the background stories of the prophets
but most importantly, even if you are not a Christian, take time to read the teachings of Christ, because they are meant for everyone in this whole world.

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Actually according to Muslim belief Gabriel spoke the Qur'an to Muhammed..
God didn't drop the Qur'an in his lap..
so learn your own holy book.
This alone leaves plenty of room for human error
even if the story was true.

Gabriel "spoke" the Qur'an to Muhammed

Muhammad recited the Qur’an to his followers, numbering tens of thousands, who recited after him, until they had memorized it. He also dictated it to his scribes (Muhammad was illiterate) who wrote down its verses during his life. Shortly after Muhammad's death the Qur’an was established textually into a single book form by the order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr.

So..the Argument for Muslims is that there was no corruption whatsoever..
directly from God came these words.

No.

The only one to ever have anything given to them Physically and textually in all 3 major religions was Moses. God inscribed the ten commandments in stone.
PERSONALLY.

So here is the issue with Muslims and the claim of direct divine teaching.
You don't have to even be a theology major to understand this either.
If you got that awesome mental gift of common sense, than you can grasp this with ease my friends.

According to Islamic fundamental teaching,
and this is even documented in the 6 hadith's
it wasn't Muhammed alone that had the task of spreading the Qur'an..
So basically you got an illiterate prophet, and a bunch of guys trying to remember what the prophet Gabriel had told Muhammed..
so yeah..totally not plausible that some human error might happen there right?

Compared to the OT where God directly spoke to prophets and Kings,
didn't send a messenger, and expected these prophets and Kings, and people to fufill what he spoke, almost immediately..
Read the book of Job..actually Job is one of the most loyal and underrated servants of God to even this time. God spoke directly to him.

To end this shortly, I know not a lot of people don't read everything in my posts,
(and if you do and find truth in it, bless you..)

But the people of Islam constantly slander Jewish and Christian belief,
and make no mistake, it's not a matter of sect..many Muslims do.
Anyway, the claims that the Qur'an is perfect and man has edited the bible..
really..with what I just presented to you..make your own assumptions with this..and please try to read the background stories of the prophets
but most importantly, even if you are not a Christian, take time to read the teachings of Christ, because they are meant for everyone in this whole world.

I liked Job. The story was pretty epic, with him going through like the biggest test in the bible. If I was him I'd be like "fuck that shit

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Actually according to Muslim belief Gabriel spoke the Qur'an to Muhammed..
God didn't drop the Qur'an in his lap..
so learn your own holy book.
This alone leaves plenty of room for human error
even if the story was true.

Gabriel "spoke" the Qur'an to Muhammed

Muhammad recited the Qur’an to his followers, numbering tens of thousands, who recited after him, until they had memorized it. He also dictated it to his scribes (Muhammad was illiterate) who wrote down its verses during his life. Shortly after Muhammad's death the Qur’an was established textually into a single book form by the order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr.

So..the Argument for Muslims is that there was no corruption whatsoever..
directly from God came these words.

No.

The only one to ever have anything given to them textually in all 3 major religions was Moses. God inscribed the ten commandments in stone.
PERSONALLY.

So here is the issue with Muslims and the claim of direct divine teaching.
You don't have to even be a theology major to understand this either.
If you got that awesome mental gift of common sense, than you can grasp this with ease my friends.

According to Islamic fundamental teaching,
and this is even documented in the 6 hadith's
it wasn't Muhammed alone that had the task of spreading the Qur'an..
So basically you got an illiterate prophet, and a bunch of guys trying to remember what the prophet Gabriel had told Muhammed..
so yeah..totally not plausible that some human error might happen there right?

Compared to the OT where God directly spoke to prophets and Kings,
didn't send a messenger, and expected these prophets and Kings, and people to fufill what he spoke, almost immediately..
Read the book of Job..actually Job is one of the most loyal and underrated servants of God to even this time. God spoke directly to him.

To end this shortly, I know not a lot of people don't read everything in my posts,
(and if you do and find truth in it, bless you..)

But the people of Islam constantly slander Jewish and Christian belief,
and make no mistake, it's not a matter of sect..many Muslims do.
Anyway, the claims that the Qur'an is perfect and man has edited the bible..
really..with what I just presented to you..make your own assumptions with this..and please try to read the background stories of the prophets
but most importantly, even if you are not a Christian, take time to read the teachings of Christ, because they are meant for everyone in this whole world.

PLEASE! dont tell me christians dont slander Muslims! dont even go that far!

And who said i didn't know about gabriel?

God sent gabriel with the word who sent it to the prophet, god spoke to moses out of a burnin' bush! and now god sends a prophet to a messenger its all of a sudden "A FAKE"...you just dont want to give in, and would twist every letter in the bible for it to lead to what you want.

Jesus doesn't directly say anything about himself being God, the word "Lord" is used as "Master" the word "Master" can also mean "tutor" or teacher, so how did the word LORD become So high up?

Jesus will come back and those who worship him, will get whats coming.

".... You will find the nearest in love to Muslims those who say "we are Christians'. That is because amongst them are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the Quran's revelation received by the Messenger (Muhammad), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognized. ... So because of what they said, Allah (God) rewarded them ...."
[Quran, chapter 5, verses 82-86]

Compare this to you - you hear 1 word of the Quran...SATAN! DEVIL! you use anything to throw at it, just to get away from the truth.

What i keep trieng to tell you:
"There is no compulsion in religion..."
[Quran, Chapter 2, Verse 256]

" God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers."
[Quran, chapter 60/ verse 8]

Now show me where in the bible it tells us to love other religions.
[Dont bring me "love your enemy", because that is your enemy but no the enemy of God", bring me where in the bible it specificly speaks about other religions and not enemy.]

Originally Posted by Doc

I liked Job. The story was pretty epic, with him going through like the biggest test in the bible. If I was him I'd be like "fuck that shit

Truth brother. I don't think anyone truly suffered like Job,
but he kept his faith.

Originally Posted by Visiblegaming

Now show me where in the bible it tells us to love other religions.
[Dont bring me "love your enemy", because that is your enemy but no the enemy of God", bring me where in the bible it specificly speaks about other religions and not enemy.]

Yah bro..not even going to reply to anything but this.

I will promise you with the deepest and truest section of my soul,
that Jesus will never come back to the earth and worship ALLAH.
Christ bows to no one bro. You bow to him.

Jesus taught to Love everyone..regardless of religion.

John 3:17. This follows the verse that is perhaps the most recited verse in the Bible. Jesus was still talking in plain and simple terms. "For God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." In his letter to the Romans, Paul carried forward with the same theme: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." Christianity does not carry a message of intolerance or condemnation, but a message of reconciliation and salvation.

Matthew 7:1

“Judge not, that you be not judged."

John 8:7

"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

2 Corinthians 6:14-15

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?

But anyway..lol Visible Christ didn't come here to "Unite" the world and make peace bro. He knew that peace would never come. He came to teach us the ways of being righteous and to give us a direct and correct path to God.
So.. you saying..Oh well NT doesn't say anywhere to spread love to all religions..well he taught to love EVERYONE. Not just a singular religion..so why would he go and name and site every religion? Gimme a break man..

Btw Visible..God mentioned himself many times as , God's son, sent from heaven,
The light of the world, God's equal..If you want me to bombard you with scripture I will..
Or you can take my word for it, because I am not a liar.
I have never posted lies about the Bible as long as I have been here.

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Truth brother. I don't think anyone truly suffered like Job,
but he kept his faith.

Yah bro..not even going to reply to anything but this.

I will promise you with the deepest and truest section of my soul,
that Jesus will never come back to the earth and worship ALLAH.
Christ bows to no one bro. You bow to him.

Jesus taught to Love everyone..regardless of religion.

John 3:17. This follows the verse that is perhaps the most recited verse in the Bible. Jesus was still talking in plain and simple terms. "For God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." In his letter to the Romans, Paul carried forward with the same theme: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." Christianity does not carry a message of intolerance or condemnation, but a message of reconciliation and salvation.

Matthew 7:1

“Judge not, that you be not judged."

John 8:7

"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

2 Corinthians 6:14-15

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?

But anyway..lol Visible Christ didn't come here to "Unite" the world and make peace bro. He knew that peace would never come. He came to teach us the ways of being righteous and to give us a direct and correct path to God.
So.. you saying..Oh well NT doesn't say anywhere to spread love to all religions..well he taught to love EVERYONE. Not just a singular religion..so why would he go and name and site every religion? Gimme a break man..

Btw Visible..God mentioned himself many times as , God's son, sent from heaven,
The light of the world, God's equal..If you want me to bombard you with scripture I will..
Or you can take my word for it, because I am not a liar.
I have never posted lies about the Bible as long as I have been here.

Gods equal is a human? LOLOL ok show me this.

Originally Posted by Visiblegaming

Gods equal is a human? LOLOL ok show me this.

Learn english, it would clear up at least a tiny bit of your misunderstandings.

Show me gabriel actually giving muhammed the word of god.

Oh thats right, you can't without relying on the "could be made up" part.

Originally Posted by Empire

Lol, its in the Hadith, the Quran is guidance from God, not the story of the prophet mohammed pbuh, though he was the messenger.

“Oh Muhammad! Truly you are the messenger of God.

And I am his angel, Gabriel.” [Mo. Biography P.34]

This is said in many hadith.

*My hands are so cold i can't type off to make hot cup of coffee

Visible what proof is there that he actually didn't make it up? /

Originally Posted by Coeus

Visible what proof is there that he actually didn't make it up? /

What proof is there God spoke to moses in a bush? what proof is there Jesus actualy was a man of God? and not a story that many believed?

Its faith.

So

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