Abortion

Well since this section is either dead or filled with piss poor excuses for arguments, let's start some actual good debates that affect the world shall we?

The topic of discussion is abortion and whether it should be allowed or not.

Now abortion has been a topic of discussion for a long time now.

Let's put some facts on the table first(can be used to aid either side of the discussion):

-There have been more than 53 million abortions performed in the United States since Roe v. Wade was decided back in 1973. What Roe V. Wade is a court case that ruled a law that prohibited abortion unconstitutional. This basically made abortion widely accepted in America.

-There is on average more than a million abortions every year in America. That's more than a million lives lost without a chance of survival every year. This is legal. And fun fact, the amount of abortions is roughly equal to the amount of military deaths every year. Meaning there are as many soldiers dying out there to protect us as there are babies being killed legally inside the country.

-About 41% of new york pregnancies end in abortion. 52% of African American pregnancies end in abortion.

-An abortion costs about $500 while giving birth costs around $9000.

-Anti-abortion activists are labeled as potential terrorists and "threats" by homeland security.

-Some abortion clinics have been caught selling baby parts to researchers.

-Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger said, “The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.” and a book called “Woman, Morality, and Birth Control”, the same woman from before says this, “Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race.” Her organization alone does approximately 300,000 abortions every year mind you. The 30 executives in this organizations make about $200,000 to $300,000 each. The organization received $487 million from the federal government in 2010.

-Here's how partial birth abortions happen guys.(warning, this is pretty disgusting.)

partial birth abortion

1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby’s legs with forceps.

2) The baby’s leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

3) The abortionist delivers the baby’s entire body, except for the head.

4) The abortionist jams scissors into the baby’s skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the skull.

5) The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child’s brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

So with all that being said, I am against abortion. I believe it should not be legal and motivated.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here are my sources:

sources

http://www.lifenews.com/2010/11/26/nat-6891/
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=32127
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ork&id=7883827
http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.o.../#.UxaHNPldU4k
http://transform.childbirthconnectio.../chargeschart/
http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...tial-terrorist
http://www.lifeissues.org/connector/99jul.html
http://www.thenewamerican.com/cultur...he-one-percent
https://www.youtube.com/wa**tch?v=XgLVZFvxVkA remove the **s

Question, what is your stance towards condoms and contraceptives?

Originally Posted by Empire

Question, what is your stance towards condoms and contraceptives?

I see that condoms are not 100% safe but I mean at least they're some sort of protection if you're going to do it. While abstinence is the better choice, condoms are the second best.

I don't know about birth control man. I'm not for taking pills to stop making babies because i'm scared of the permanent effects. I think condoms are better.

well it is the girls choice in the end

If you can't handle it theres no point in having it

So sad though

Well I prefer that the baby die young if their parents say so.
I mean what if the baby's parents are crack heads and/or abusive or something?

Haha, funny how they do, scissors xD

Originally Posted by ap0.

Haha, funny how they do, scissors xD

That's not funny, that's plain sick.

Originally Posted by ap0.

Haha, funny how they do, scissors xD

God thats messed up

Originally Posted by Martin Johnson

So you approve contraceptives?

Because that's all abortion really is.

You can argue it's killing a child, but honestly it's no different than any other form of contraceptive.

Ugh. The way abortion sounds is terrible, but if the person can't literally have a child then it's whatever. Say a 12 year old gets raped and pregnant, It is pretty smart to make her not risk her own life to have a baby she didn't even want. I believe it all depends on the scenario. If the parents were stupid and just got knocked up without protection that a completely different story, and they should deal with their mistakes, and have the baby, and just go for adoption or something.

On the other hand about condoms and abstinence and all that which was mentioned. It really depends on the person @MOST PLAYED as he said it IS the girls choice. If she wants to be on birth control so be it, It doesn't necessarily kill the baby, she just doesn't release an egg, it's never born or even growing. And condoms don't kill the "egg" either, just male sperm, if your against condoms, why would you still jack off and release all your sperm ? As i said depends on the person.

My views are that abortion is wrong in most cases unless you absolutely have no other option/can't have the baby, no i don't approve of how it is done. But, you only mentioned the completely graphic way, there are other options, look up the abortion pill.
My views are pro contraceptive, being a girl there are many reasons the pill/shot are a good idea. Especially if you have problems that lead you to needing the pill for womanly reasons. (IE. (tmi maybe oh well.) Girl doesn't get periods, irregular, control cramps and blood flow, it's not just preventing pregnancy.) And it is a much better option then killing an already growing baby.
Now on to condoms, i have no ill feelings towards them, i don't personally use them, but they do what they're meant to do, they prevent pregnancy to a certain degree, and fight stds, If you think contraceptive kills babies, your opinion on condoms should be very low since you are killing male sperm using them and when you masturbate, and if that really is your view, go abstinent, don't touch yourself, or have sex ever till you want to have kids.
Abstinence isn't my thing either. I feel if two people love each other they should have sex and be intimate, but sex for the wrong reasons, like just plain getting off, and prostitutes, is wrong and those people really should wait.

:/

From my perspective:

People against abortion:
-Haven't given childbirth, don't know the problems financially and medically of being pregnant, the cost of even having a child much less taking care of it.
-Putting their views onto other people because "hey why not, it's not my problem and I won't have to deal with it" especially males. Males have no say in this subject whatsoever.
-Wishy washy moral values. I.e. abortion is wrong but contraceptives are ok, although they serve the same purpose.
- Debating a "fine line" as if there is some absolute value when human life is considered "sacred".

Here, george carlin owning abortion talks:

Feel thats enough for the thread.

Originally Posted by Empire

So you approve contraceptives?

Because that's all abortion really is.

You can argue it's killing a child, but honestly it's no different than any other form of contraceptive.

Contraceptives and abortion are two very different animals.

While I don't approve of contraceptives, they are preventative measures.

They don't kill fetuses.

What they basically do is stop ovulation so that when sex happens, there are no eggs for the male's sperm to be fertilized.

Preventing egg cells from being produced and killing a developing baby fetus are not similar things.

Originally Posted by Jacareverde

Well I prefer that the baby die young if their parents say so.
I mean what if the baby's parents are crack heads and/or abusive or something?

Originally Posted by MOST PLAYED

well it is the girls choice in the end

If you can't handle it theres no point in having it

So sad though

Just because the person made the baby does not give them the right to kill it.

If parents are allowed to kill their fetuses, why not let them kill their children? They're one and the same really.

And that excuse of "oh they're not capable of raising a child" or "what if the parents are junkies or abusive" is bull. You are basically saying that because they can't raise a child then they kill it. That's fucking heartless. Why not just go look in all the houses and kill children whose parents are idiots. Listen to yourself for a minute and understand that these fetuses are live beings and have as much of a right to live as you. Not giving them a chance of survival and playing god is immoral and heartless.

I'm pro-abortion but the issue has all kinds of retard surrounding it.

If the man doesn't want the child, but the woman does, he still has to pay child support.

If the woman doesn't the child, but the man does, dead baby.

If women have the right to abort a pregnancy, men should have the right to abstain their paternal duties.

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Can you explain why you are pro-abortion?

Why do you think it's right and should be legal?

Originally Posted by Martin Johnson

Contraceptives and abortion are two very different animals.

While I don't approve of contraceptives, they are preventative measures.

They don't kill fetuses.

What they basically do is stop ovulation so that when sex happens, there are no eggs for the male's sperm to be fertilized.

Preventing egg cells from being produced and killing a developing baby fetus are not similar things.

Just because the person made the baby does not give them the right to kill it.

If parents are allowed to kill their fetuses, why not let them kill their children? They're one and the same really.

And that excuse of "oh they're not capable of raising a child" or "what if the parents are junkies or abusive" is bull. You are basically saying that because they can't raise a child then they kill it. That's fucking heartless. Why not just go look in all the houses and kill children whose parents are idiots. Listen to yourself for a minute and understand that these fetuses are live beings and have as much of a right to live as you. Not giving them a chance of survival and playing god is immoral and heartless.

answer this. Would you live a shitty life or not live it at all?

Abortion

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